Looking for a decent generator.. 5000 watts

[Gunny]

Is the Champion made for sensitive electronics? Call and see what the THD is. In addition, thd will be listed in the specs of the generator. The Northern tool northstar i mentioed up above use the McAlte Italian gen heads and have a Thd of less than 5%

The specs on the one I ordered is 5%, I don't have a clue what it is on my older Champion, that's the reason I bought a new one.

 

[IslandTractor]

The specs on the one I ordered is 5%, I don't have a clue what it is on my older Champion, that's the reason I bought a new one.

Is Champion an actual manufacturer like Honda, Yamaha, Subaru, or is it just a marketing name like RCA, Zenith, or Kirkland? Costco does a great job IMO of offering products with great bang for the buck but one way they do that is to bypass name brand manufacturers and make marketing deals with very competent second tier manufacturers. Only problem with the Costco strategy is long term product support.

 

[3930dave]

THD matters, esp. in the extreme. You'll see staff electricians occasionally going on inspections in large facilities, and re-distributing specific loads onto different feeds.... a bit more on that below..... (the issue is Neutral current)

If I was really concerned about my own location, I'm not sure I'd start by spending my money on a new generator. For a couple of reasons......

1) THD is a problem in general, not just when you are on-generator. A basic outline here, but the most important point is the last sentence.... (Problem sources for THD are non-linear loads.......)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonics_%28electrical_power%29

"Other examples of nonlinear loads are battery chargers, electronic ballasts, variable frequency drives, and switching mode power supplies."

AKA pretty much every consumer product sold in the last 25 years..... and that's w/o even going into what kind of welder you have at home........

2) Generators can and do run out of fuel.

3) Generators can and do run low or out of oil.

Obviously, 2) and 3) are more than just a THD issue....

If I had data or systems that I were particularly concerned about, I'd want a 24x7 solution. Numerous ways to go.... one example attached from Xantrex...... quotes THD < 3%, and meets spec for ambulance applications.

View attachment DS20120912_PROsine1000-1800.pdf

As time goes on, I've become more interested in DC systems.... noise isolation is just one factor.....

Turns out, the whole of Fairbanks is on a UPS..... I've now revised what I consider a large UPS to be......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply

As they are a significant non-linear load themselves, a UPS can introduce THD locally to non-protected loads - something to keep in mind when deciding what goes onto a UPS, and what doesn't.

The other key point in the above wiki link concerns generators driving UPSes........ a low cost UPS needs to be driven by a higher wattage generator than a state-of-the-art UPS.......... something to be mindful of, esp. with small generators.

Rgds, D.

 

[Gunny]

Champion is a US company that is supposed to own the manufacturing plant(s) in China (suprise!), They do have two locations in the US, but I suspect they're support wings, not manufacturing.

I think they've been in business for 10-12 years and I've heard they're pretty good on the support end, I personally don't know because I've never had to use their support.

Their engines are the Honda clones so prevalent today and other than the paint job, the generators looks exactly like the other Chinese generators out on the market, or at least the Sportsman line of generators.

 

[Garandman]

Why Champion? - Champion Power Equipment

They now have Inverter styles. Their 2000 W inverter is around $500. Says they have parallel capability.

//Most of the Inverter units and the better quality non-inverter units have carb bowl drains, but I added an inline filter between the fuel shutoff (which has a screen in it) on my 2800 I and the carb as added insurance. I had an issue with the carb a while back, some dirt got into the bowl and into the main jet (the jets are tiny in the carbs, heck, the carbs are small) and I had to take it off and clean it in Berryman Carb dunk. I figure as added insurance a 98 cent filter in the fuel line is a good investment, the carb was a PITA to get off.... Just an FYI

This is a great idea. better than using the coffee filter I've resorted to at times....

 

[3930dave]

Why Champion? - Champion Power Equipment

They now have Inverter styles. Their 2000 W inverter is around $500. Says they have parallel capability.

Those Champion inverters have been available up here for a little while (1 yr+). At that price point, if I was in the market for an inverter gen of that wattage level, they would be on my short-list to consider. Doubling up is a nice option.

The people I know who have conventional Champion generators have had good service from them.

Rgds, D.

 

[IslandTractor]

The Champion 3100 watt inverter unit looks very nice too. At less than $900 is would be cheaper than two of the smaller units.

 

[kenmac]

I called Generac about the THD.. They said that all of their generators are between 3-6 %..Said they still recommend the use of a line cleaner / surge protector for any generator

 

[Garandman]

Those Champion inverters have been available up here for a little while (1 yr+). At that price point, if I was in the market for an inverter gen of that wattage level, they would be on my short-list to consider. Doubling up is a nice option.
//

In this thread a gent bought a lower-cost [than Honda] inverter generator and burned out a board in the furnace he was trying to run. I was willing to pay the extra money for a Honda for an emergency backup after seeing what people went through during Hurricane Sandy.

 

[sixdogs]

I called Generac about the THD.. They said that all of their generators are between 3-6 %..Said they still recommend the use of a line cleaner / surge protector for any generator

What's a "line cleaner"?
On the surge protector, does that just mean to have one on your sensitive electronics and the problem of high THD is fixed?

 

[Garandman]

We refer to them as "Power Conditioners."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner

 

[Industrial Toys]

Don't forget the "Temperature Rise" spec and find out if the unit is even designed for continuous use.

I kick myself today. A few years ago, I could have bought a used Rail Reefer Service Generator. About 15-20 KW, Detoit 2 stroke Diesel and get this, 1200RPM! Weighed a ton, but reasonably priced. Now, that's a generator! Those things would just purr along, maybe for months, criss-crossing the continent. They got outlawed because they could not meet emmisions.

EDIT I just see, an outfit call "Hardy Diesel" sells these reconditioned rail units. Five and a half grand for an autostart unit. 2oKW. 20 quart oil pan! I don't for the life of me understand why anyone would buy some over priced, screaming at 3600RPM, consumer garbage unit over one of these?

 

[Garandman]

There are lots of good Milsurp gensets for sale. You can but them at auction or there are outfits that specialize in refurbishing and installing them. Big and heavy but run forever and power output is very conservative.

A friend of mine lives in NH and I copied his twin EU2000i setup because he's used it for up to 11 days straight. An hour meter is optional but I'll see if I can find out the hours on them. He runs both during the day and one at night.

 

[liberty2701]

Not sure who you spoke with but the only portable Generac units with a thd of less than 5 % are the Xp line and the inverter style.

 

[liberty2701]

I called Generac about the THD.. They said that all of their generators are between 3-6 %..Said they still recommend the use of a line cleaner / surge protector for any generator

Not sure who you spoke with but the only Generac portable with a thd of less than 5% are the Xp and inverter lines. I think you should do a follow up call to them and clarify.

 

[PILOON]

I know that I have posted this info before, (maybe even here)

I did a partial teardown on a COSCO Champion that had 800+* hrs on it and very abused by a contractor.
The engine inners were just like new and it only wanted a valve adjustment.
It is still in use and powers all the electronics with no problems.
I adjusted it to run at 60 cycles as that is the most damaging to electronics.
Since acceptable voltage from hydro is +/- 10% electronics are designed to withstand that.
Cycles become more important.(many can accept from 50-60 as most Europe runs on 50)

*it had a built in hour meter.

Purchase bigger than you think you need as motor start ups demand that extra reserve.
Also that extra reserve power means that you engine will last much longer as it is loafing.
Use synthetic oil and change it often with a monthly exercising under a load.
(A 1000 watt heater makes a nice exercise load.)

 

[3930dave]

In this thread a gent bought a lower-cost [than Honda] inverter generator and burned out a board in the furnace he was trying to run. I was willing to pay the extra money for a Honda for an emergency backup after seeing what people went through during Hurricane Sandy.

Been reading that thread too. Hondas are decent gens, but I'm not convinced an equivalent Honda would guarantee different results. He had at least 3 factors going against him - he went from 5k down to a 1.7kw gen, may have had a ground issue, and was doing fine until he turned on Autothrottle.

I'd also venture that the furnace board design was marginal, or it was a defective unit - you should be able to expect something critical like a furnace to survive brown-out conditions, IMO.

Rgds, D.

 

[dragoneggs]

Been reading that thread too. Hondas are decent gens, but I'm not convinced an equivalent Honda would guarantee different results. He had at least 3 factors going against him - he went from 5k down to a 1.7kw gen, may have had a ground issue, and was doing fine until he turned on Autothrottle.

I'd also venture that the furnace board design was marginal, or it was a defective unit - you should be able to expect something critical like a furnace to survive brown-out conditions, IMO.

Rgds, D.

Nope no guarantees that a Honda would have saved him. But it is proven fact that low noise, proper sine wave input is less likely to 'fry' electronics. I wouldn't blame the furnace board... it apparently was running fine on 'normal' power. Sure, it would be nice to expect the furnace board to be highly tolerant. But I see the converse... I expect the generator output to be 'clean'.

Again.. "you get what you pay for"... maybe not always but when it comes to generators (and Kraft Mac n Cheese :laughing... I can't argue that base on my experience and a lot of others.

 

[houstonscott]

I am looking for a good quality generator that will be close to 5,000 watts. I need it to run a refrigerator, open garage doors and maybe run a few tools if needed. This would not be to run a full home! Just our cabin that is pretty rustic. I need one that will work when needed and will put out clean power as we have sensitive devices that we use once and a while and power is only working out there 75% of the time. I am looking at this Subaru.... but question if it is better than others.... Here is the only review I can find on it. YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTICEVH1JDQ

Only two choices, Honda or Yamaha. HS

 

[3930dave]

Nope no guarantees that a Honda would have saved him. But it is proven fact that low noise, proper sine wave input is less likely to 'fry' electronics. I wouldn't blame the furnace board... it apparently was running fine on 'normal' power. Sure, it would be nice to expect the furnace board to be highly tolerant. But I see the converse... I expect the generator output to be 'clean'.

Again.. "you get what you pay for"... maybe not always but when it comes to generators (and Kraft Mac n Cheese :laughing... I can't argue that base on my experience and a lot of others.

As you know DE, I like Hondas just fine. :thumbsup: Their quality designs and low-noise mufflers go back decades.

My comment was mostly a general reminder.... regardless of the brand you buy, or the size of the cheque you write, you don't get to violate the laws of Physics.

What I took away from that thread was that if I ever get a gen that has Autothrottle, I'll be doing a pile of research and testing before turning that feature on while supporting critical loads. Saving gas is attractive, but that post was a great example of getting clobbered by unintended consequences.

Rgds, D.