Looking to buy in the spring, am I thinking about right?

[hoffmtc]

I've seen several threads like this, but knowing each situation is a little different I thought I'd ask for some guidance on my situation.

I don't own any tractor at the moment, but have spent years at our hunting club land (150 acres) working on an International 424, from the mid 1960's. 4000# machine for weight.
We use it for rotary mowing, discing, planting, general work. No FEL on that. That is my base of knowledge for tractor use, to give some reference.

Fiance and I have obtained a gorgeous 17 acres that we take possession of in November. Building a house hopefully in the spring.
Winter will be here soon after, so I'm looking at purchasing next spring when things start to green up and need attention on the land.
The acreage has approx:
6 acres heavily wooded
2 acres "sort of" wooded with rows of trees planted 20 years ago
6-7 acres of clover field
2 acres of lawn (mowed by normal riding mower)

Some decent elevation changes, 60 feet from lowest point to highest peak.

The tasks I can see needed for the tractor:
Disc/turn/work the clover field
Mowing clover field and trails
Tilling LARGE garden
Moving pallets with front end forks, might weigh 2000lb
Front end work, moving dirt, gravel, mulch
Pulling buckthorn, stumps, doing wood hauling
Possibly rear snow blowing attachment for 125 yard driveway.

4x4 is a must for some of the uphill trails I'm guessing, and winter work.

I'd like to clear a trail around the perimeter of the property, so the tractor/mower will be going through some woods as trails are established.

Looking at HST for easy operation for the little woman
At first I was looking at the B-series, but like all things fishing boats, guns safes, garages, and pole barns, things quickly have "shrinkage" after a while of use and I know that.
So then my mind bumped up the L-series. With the elevation changes and hillside, the wider stance of the L4701 has had my attention now for some time.
But to avoid 'wishiwouldagotbigger' syndrome after the fact, then start looking at the MX series....

Comments? What else should I be considering? MX too much for 17 acres? MX too big for in the woods? Or would the L4701 be a great fit with enough power? Other L series?
I have not been to a dealership to play with these in person.

 

[jeff9366]

Fiance and I have obtained a gorgeous 17 acres that we take possession of in November. Some decent elevation changes, 60 feet from lowest point to highest peak. Building a house hopefully in the spring. Winter will be here soon after, so I'm looking at purchasing next spring when things start to green up and need attention on the land.

The acreage has approx:
6 acres heavily wooded
2 acres "sort of" wooded with rows of trees planted 20 years ago
6-7 acres of clover field
2 acres of lawn (mowed by normal riding mower)



The tasks I can see needed for the tractor:
Disc/turn/work the clover field
Mowing clover field and trails
Tilling LARGE garden
Moving pallets with front end forks, might weigh 2000lb
Front end work, moving dirt, gravel, mulch
Pulling buckthorn, stumps, doing wood hauling
Possibly rear snow blowing attachment for 125 yard driveway.

4x4 is a must for some of the uphill trails I'm guessing, and winter work.

I'd like to clear a trail around the perimeter of the property, so the tractor/mower will be going through some woods as trails are established.

Looking at HST for easy operation for the little woman
At first I was looking at the B-series, but like all things fishing boats, guns safes, garages, and pole barns, things quickly have "shrinkage" after a while of use and I know that.
So then my mind bumped up the L-series. With the elevation changes and hillside, the wider stance of the L4701 has had my attention now for some time.
But to avoid 'wishiwouldagotbigger' syndrome after the fact, then start looking at the MX series....

Comments? What else should I be considering? MX too much for 17 acres? MX too big for in the woods? Or would the L4701 be a great fit with enough power?

LIFTING one ton pallets safely with the FEL requires a tractor of at least 5,000 pounds bare tractor weight.
There are three issues: 1) Pallet loads protrude in front of the FEL, so leverage works against both lift capacity and tractor stability. FEL loads are top causes of tractor rollovers. 2) Related, FEL lift capacity decreases rapidly with lift height. 3) Front wheels/tires bearing FEL weight pivot, are small and narrowly spread.

You can MOVE one ton pallets safely with Three Point Hitch mounted Pallet Forks, but not lift more than 18". Load is carried by the large, wide spread, rear wheels/tires.

Removing stumps can be done with a Backhoe equipped L4701 or MX but unless you have other uses for $7,000 Backhoe you would be better having an excavator come in every two or three years to remove stumps.

All other applications you forecast could be managed with L4701 or MX, with a safe margin. Few dealers maintain an L4701 in inventory. All Kubota dealers have at least one MX, as one platform demonstrates three models and parts inventory fairly interchangeable across MX models.
Horsepower required might be influenced by your altitude if your property is at 5,000' altitude or higher.

You probably do not need a Disc Harrow and a PTO-powered Roto-tiller. Both mix soil. One or the other, not both. Roto-tillers make excellent Three Point Hitch mounted counterbalance to FEL lifts.

Tractor width: You will probably want R4/industrial tires. Buy a 10' stick of 1-1/4" PVC pipe, which will not sag. Cut to width of MX tire width; mark with width of L4701, walk around your land.

Plan your garage with enough height so tractor will enter with ROPS up.
Plan your garage with enough depth to accommodate tractor, the FEL and bucket and your longest implement.
I have smashed three deep sinks in the rear of my garage in six years. When I designed the garage tractors were unknown to me.

VIDEOS: Kubota Standard L-Series. L251 L331 L391 L471 features and operation. - YouTube

Kubota MX series walk around and features by Messicks. | MX48 MX52 MX58 - YouTube

 

[hoffmtc]

thanks for the input!
Yes, 2000# pallets would be from the rear 3pt forks, and that would be rare to be that weight, but might happen. Moving to locations, more that lifting to height.
Normal pallets for lifting to pallet racking would be 1000# typically at most. I'm still leaning towards buying a cheap used fork lift for pallet applications, and leaving that in the pole building.
This is located in Wisconsin, so altitude is not really a factor.
I don't plan on buying a backhoe, as you mentioned an excavator would be better for big stumps.
I was thinking more smaller removal. LOTS of buckthorn to root out.

 

[oosik]

I have a 2009 Kubota M6040. It would, easily, lift a one ton pallet. But that is because the tractor weighs 10,100# - has 1550# of RimGuard in the rear tires and a very heavy( 1050# ) rear blade on the 3-point.

When I lift HEAVY loads with the grapple - you could easily call it "knuckle dragging". I lifted, once, a very large, heavy rock with the grapple. I was going from here to there. It was about 24" up in the air. One front tire found a shallow hole. I dropped that grapple & rock - just like a hot potato. Fortunately, I was moving very slowly with my right hand on the joy stick.

The feeling I got - in the seat of my pants - it was NOT a good feeling. It was a feeling of almost total/complete instability.

As a matter of fact. If I'm lifting VERY HEAVY loads - large rock or chunk of Ponderosa pine - I will lift just enough to have the grapple clear the ground. I'm not the least bit upset if this leaves shallow drag marks. I WILL NOT repeat that one situation again.

 

[4570Man]

A cheap forklift is definitely the better way the move pallets. The catch is cheap forklifts are hunks of junk and are very limited off concrete. It takes no slouch of a tractor to move 2,000 pound pallets. I think you’ll need a minimum of a 824 series loader on a Kubota to do it. Here’s my cheap muscle. It’ll lift 10,000 but it can’t drive off concrete. A pneumatic tire one is better but they’re still nearly useless on dirt. They do pretty decent in gravel parking lots.

 

[jeff9366]

I was thinking more brush removal. LOTS of buckthorn to root out.

I totally unfamiliar with Buckthorn but I speculate either a $400 Ratchet Rake bucket attachment or
$450 Bucket Spade would serve you well. I use both regularly.

VIDEO: Ratchet Rake brush - YouTube

 

[hoffmtc]

Lifting 2000# pallets is WAAY down on the list of priorities, a separate forklift seems the best way to tackle that task if it becomes more than rare.

I had not seen the Ratchet Rake or Bucket Spade before! thanks for the info! Buckthorn is an invasive species that is the scourge of the woods in the midwest. If you cut it you have to treat it or else it comes back 3-4x as thick. You have to pull it out, roots and all to make progress. I've been eyeing several different brush pullers too.

So from what I'm thinking I won't feel underwhelmed with a L4701 or MX4800. Am I aiming too large for my other uses mentioned?

 

[jeff9366]

Tractor width: You will probably want R4/industrial tires. Buy a 10' stick of 1-1/4" PVC pipe, which will not sag. Cut to width of MX tire width; mark width of narrower L4701, walk around your land.
(All tractor widths in tractor specification lists are for narrow R1/ag tires.)

45-50 horsepower is ample to power a 72" heavy duty (1,000 pound) Bush Hog cutting and maintaining trails, or a snowblower, your only power hungry PTO implement applications foreseen. Roto-tilling requires very little power.
For your other applications tractor weight is more important than engine power.

For light to moderate snowfalls, pushing snow with a plow, the FEL bucket or a Snow Box is faster than blowing snow.

VIDEO: TRACTOR SNOW BOX - YouTube

I had not seen the Ratchet Rake or Bucket Spade before! thanks for the info! Buckthorn is an invasive species that is the scourge of the woods in the midwest. If you cut it you have to treat it or else it comes back 3-4x as thick. You have to pull it out, roots and all to make progress.

T-B-N ARCHIVE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/328798-bucket-spade-today-fel-bucket.html?highlight=

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/375397-ratchet-rake-today.html?highlight=


Tractor weight largely defines tractor capability in pulling applications.
Heavier tractors are built with thicker steel and thicker axles to withstand the stress of heavier loads.

Heavier tractors have larger diameter, greater breadth wheels/tires, creating a larger tire "patch" in contact with the soil. Rear tires are often ballasted internally with liquid, placing weight directly over the tire tread. Larger wheels and tires and a longer wheelbase permit heavier tractors to bridge holes, burrows, ruts and tree debris, increasing traction and reducing operator perturbation. Therefore, heavier tractors with large diameter wheels/tires have more tractive power pulling ground contact implements and tree trunks, pushing a loader bucket into dirt and pushing snow. Larger wheels and tires increase ground clearance, lengthening the period which row crops may be implement cultivated.

Heavier tractors have FEL lift and Three Point Hitch lift in proportion to weight.

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second and (narrowly) rear wheel ballast third. Ample tractor horsepower is needed for PTO-powered implements such as Bush Hogs and snow blowers, but remains subsidiary to tractor weight in defining tractor capability.

((The larger wheels/tires on the MX series will be the main advantage over L4701.
Do you need larger wheels where passing between trees is a consideration?
Your money, your decision.))

 

[hoffmtc]

Tractor width: You will probably want R4/industrial tires. Buy a 10' stick of 1-1/4" PVC pipe, which will not sag. Cut to width of MX tire width; mark with width of L4701, walk around your land.

45-50 horsepower is ample to power a 72" Bush Hog cutting and maintaining trails, your only PTO implement application foreseen.

Great idea for the 'measuring stick'! Also for PTO duties for us, rear tiller for huge garden, and possibly rear snow blower for 125yd driveway.

 

[PaulL2]

3ph will lift the pallets you want. If they have to come off a truck build a loading ramp.

MX would be plenty of tractor. It's probably a better tractor for the money than the L4701, which is why there aren't many L4701s around. The main purpose of the L4701 is the maximum HP tractor you can easily put on a trailer.

If you ignore the pallet lifting, the rest can be done by a large B (now LX). But bigger is usually better, especially if you're not finish mowing with it.