Looking to repower my rayco 140

[yellowdogsvc]

I very much doubt that Dirtroad, Rayco won't pay attention to anyone.
The biggest problem with manufacturer's is they don't build the machines from hands on experience of owning and operating them, example, try and change an engine oil filter on a Rayco C140 on the job site. I got so pissed off I relocated mine ( now mounted on the fuel tank), Showed Rayco rep what I had done and all I got back was a very vacant look, I don't know whether the drugs were working or not.
Mulcherguy, you gotta be proud of that, deserves a big YAY for the day

It's sad how it takes so long for feedback to make its way up the chain.

And I ditto the Yay for the day comment. Very innovative and impressive. Makes me feel pretty useless.

 

[mulcherguy]

Thanks Guys. I spent fair bit of time with the owners of Rayco at their factory in Wooster and at my shop and job sites in Alberta. I was hoping to convince them to build a machine similar to the one I ended up building. JR is a great guy and his designers are top notch.
From the perspective of mass production a manufacturer has to consider a lot of variables when committing to building a new machine. Us contractors know what we want, but they have to be able to profit from the sale of our dream machine. Cramming 200hp into a skidsteer sized crawler is a substantial warranty risk. It would require betting their brand reliability reputation on what appeared to be a niche market. The cost of the hydrostatic rotor drive components was more then double (the 87fm) and selling new customers a little mulcher for 250K is not an easy task. The other factor as surprising as it is to us, is aesthetics. The machine has to look good to sell! The look on their faces when I showed them my prototype for the first time was priceless!
I did not need to sell them and made no sacrifices to make it pleasing to the eye of showroom buyers. When I calculated how much cooling I required I simply designed a roof to house the hydraulic coolers and AC system. I knew it would look rather bizarre but my focus was on cutting ability, operator comfort and 100% reliability. My competition laughed out loud until my little Frankenstein looking thing ran circles around their $400K lamtrac at a forestry show demo day.
I don't know if any manufacturer will ever offer a 200+ hp compact mulcher but if they start spending more time with the end users they will soon discover that this would not be a niche market. I will try and dig up more videos that truly show what this little thing can do, but most of the footage I have is during reliability testing. We were purposely trying to overload the cooling systems rather then show off it's speed.
I hope this machine inspires someone out there to build or modify their own mulcher. If enough people show the OEM's what we really need then we may be able to buy what we really want.

 

[cat 297c]

Awesome machine I wished manufacturers would focus on building machine like this small but packs a punch. U said drop a 300hp
Motor in my Rayco 140 I would love to see what it would do!!!!

 

[tonyoz]

Awesome machine I wished manufacturers would focus on building machine like this small but packs a punch. U said drop a 300hp
Motor in my Rayco 140 I would love to see what it would do!!!!

Hey Cat, I still recon a JD6068 is still doable and they go out to 275hp but only 12" longer.Ill send you some photos of mine with the pumps out and you will see what I mean.:thumbsup:

 

[mulcherguy]

In my particular situation building a 200hp mini machine was well worth it. In the previous years I had proven to my customers that mulching was a viable alternative to clearing with a dozer. They were now willing to give mulcher contractors plenty of work if it could be done for a reasonable cost. The problem was that on the jobs that required a small narrow machine. The hourly rate we needed to charge to just break even did not match the production level expected by the clients. I literally traveled the world searching for a small machine that would satisfy my need to mulch trees as fast as lgp dozers could pile and burn it. Nothing came close at the time and I committed to building my own.
The key was having work lined up if I could produce a machine capable of doing it for the going rate. If you have or can get enough work to justify the cost of a custom built machine I would say go for it.
When Rayco told me (I was a dealer at the time) they were going to build the 130/140 series I was disappointed that they weren't 200hp+ but did do up some drawings for what I felt the potential of this chassis could be. I planned for a 7l to 8l inline 6 making not less then 1000 ft lbs from 1800 to 1400 rpm. Pumps were to be 2 x 130cc set to destroke @ 4800psi. I had a parts list assembled and drawings that showed where everything would fit . The only reason I didn't build it was that tier II emissions were coming into effect and I was concerned about the unproven reliability of the new technologies.
I think it's only a matter of time before someone refits a 140 Rayco to 300hp and it will be exponentially more productive then the 140 in anything bigger than 4" (or even high density 1" brush). If your typical jobs are clearing light brush then the 140 is a very capable machine. It is when we get into the heavy stuff that the payback starts exceeding the investment. In my case it increased profit 700% on jobs paying by the linear kilometer or Hectare. To put that in perspective I was being paid 1000 per km of 1.75 m wide seismic line. I was getting 1 to 1.5 km per machine per day with the C87FM. That jumped to at least 7 km per day with the 200hp machine in the same density on the same job....

 

[yellowdogsvc]

In my particular situation building a 200hp mini machine was well worth it. In the previous years I had proven to my customers that mulching was a viable alternative to clearing with a dozer. They were now willing to give mulcher contractors plenty of work if it could be done for a reasonable cost. The problem was that on the jobs that required a small narrow machine. The hourly rate we needed to charge to just break even did not match the production level expected by the clients. I literally traveled the world searching for a small machine that would satisfy my need to mulch trees as fast as lgp dozers could pile and burn it. Nothing came close at the time and I committed to building my own.
The key was having work lined up if I could produce a machine capable of doing it for the going rate. If you have or can get enough work to justify the cost of a custom built machine I would say go for it.
When Rayco told me (I was a dealer at the time) they were going to build the 130/140 series I was disappointed that they weren't 200hp+ but did do up some drawings for what I felt the potential of this chassis could be. I planned for a 7l to 8l inline 6 making not less then 1000 ft lbs from 1800 to 1400 rpm. Pumps were to be 2 x 130cc set to destroke @ 4800psi. I had a parts list assembled and drawings that showed where everything would fit . The only reason I didn't build it was that tier II emissions were coming into effect and I was concerned about the unproven reliability of the new technologies.
I think it's only a matter of time before someone refits a 140 Rayco to 300hp and it will be exponentially more productive then the 140 in anything bigger than 4" (or even high density 1" brush). If your typical jobs are clearing light brush then the 140 is a very capable machine. It is when we get into the heavy stuff that the payback starts exceeding the investment. In my case it increased profit 700% on jobs paying by the linear kilometer or Hectare. To put that in perspective I was being paid 1000 per km of 1.75 m wide seismic line. I was getting 1 to 1.5 km per machine per day with the C87FM. That jumped to at least 7 km per day with the 200hp machine in the same density on the same job....

I don't know what you invested in your project but a 700% ROI is incredible. You should be very proud of yourself. You have also built a platform that is now proven in the field. Kudos to your design and operation.

 

[mulcherguy]

The 7X increase in production was because the little 87hp machine was just not designed to grind through a solid wall of 4 inch black spruce. At the time when the c87fm came out it was the best compact machine on the market. At that time manufacturers were just discovering that there was a need for mini mulchers for brushing regrowth. Rayco was way ahead of the pack by using a closed loop high pressure piston pump to transfer engine torque to the head. Nobody anticipated that a compact machine would be used in the heavy conditions I put them through. OEM's assumed that the customer would buy a full size mulcher like the T275 or Ahwi/Fecon RT350. My rare circumstance called for a maximum line width of 1.75M (69") . Prior to us using the C87fm these lines were cut by hand with chainsaw crews.
That was back in 2000/01 and frankly I am surprised that no one has successfully hit the 200hp mark in a truly compact sized mulcher . I have worked with several manufacturers directly and indirectly and have tried to motivate them toward 200hp. I felt like I was the only operator who ever got frustrated by a stalling rotor on a nasty clump of willows. It is nice to see some guys with real world experience saying that 140hp is not enough in some situations.

 

[yellowdogsvc]

I love it. The little "frankenstein" ate the big lamtrac! That had to be fun to watch..

I imagine there were some guys feeling awfully short that day. I'm still impressed.

 

[mulcherguy]

It was quite funny because the site was a thinning job up in the mountains. A machine was needed to go in and wiggle around in 50 ft tall lodgepole pine that were growing 6 feet apart. The lam trac ended up not being able to back out of his first trail. The forestry guys had me go in and open up a spot big enough for him to turn around.
I assume that they have improved the hydraulics to the head now but in 2003 they had to keep lifting the cutter and use momentum to mulch 6inch pine. I recall the head stalling while the engine only dropped 200 or so rpm? Either the multifunction valve was set too low or the pumps were too small back then. I think those machines would be awesome in really steep conditions on clear cut jobs due to the four track set up. I am not sure how much power they are offering these days but in my warped mind it looks like a Cat C15 would fit in that Lam Trac engine bay quite nicely!

 

[mulcherguy]

Here are some pictures for reference showing the Cummins B series sitting in the little Rayco (modified) chassis. I bought the engines new from cummins and then rebuilt them with aftermarket pistons, rods, adjustable wastegate and ARP studs throughout. We changed the injectors and pump settings to provide a huge torque rise down to 1400 rpm. The rated horsepower of 200 was not changed but it made 270 more ft/lbs of torque at the target rpm of 1750. The other picture is of the stock 87hp deutz and little 55cc pump that came out. I might be able to find more pictures of the conversion if anyone is thinking of repowering. The problem is most of those photos are trapped in my crashed laptop and I was too stupid to make back-up copies before the BSOD got me!