Looking to repower my rayco 140

[mulcherguy]

After proving we could cut 69 inch seismic lines I was asked to build a drill that could fit down them ! Rayco chassis to the rescue once again! I had to shoehorn in a 170hp JD 4045 and it fit nicely without extending the chassis. I first tried the 4045 for mulching but found it wasn't enough torque to mulch the density and size we work in. It turned out perfect for powering the little mini drill.

 

[fishfactor]

I like your creation. Do you have any problems with your departure angle on the mulcher when crossing ditches, etc?

 

[mulcherguy]

Actually it is not much of a problem. It looks like it would be a huge issue but we never have encountered a situation that affected our productivity. There is a formula that engineers use when designing an undercarriage. There is a lot of input required, however the distance between the center line of the tracks (track gauge) vs the track length, gross weight and grouser depth is critical to maneuverability.
The most critical dimension I needed to adhere to was the overall width. It could not exceed 69" or metric 1.75M. The whole purpose of this machine was to create a narrow mulcher that could punch through whatever we encountered without veering off course. The lines had to be cut where they were planned regardless of what was encountered.
Adding 18 inches to the track length would significantly reduce the turning ability of the machine without increasing the track gauge by 3".
I was concerned that the departure angle would be a huge compromise and was sure that the winch would have to go. Field testing proved otherwise and we were pleasantly surprised that the 18 " extension caused virtually no problems other then making a gouge in the ground on steep ditches. Even in these situations the operators would take it at a bit of an angle. The machine balance did not change at all either since we removed the counterweight steel blocks from inside the rear chassis.
I did build one 1.75 drill that ignored the length/width formula and it was a pain to turn because the tracks were too long in relation to the track gauge. We ended up relocating the drive and idler sprocket to reduce the length of ground contact. See Attached photos.

 

[tuckinlugz]

Mucherguy please put up some videos of this beast! I woud love to see it running!

 

[mulcherguy]

Mucherguy please put up some videos of this beast! I woud love to see it running!

Are you talking about the mini mulcher or the drills? I don't have much of either unfortunately. I don't work at the company that owns the drills anymore however my exwife is the president there now. I have asked her to have someone shoot some video of the mini mulchers bringing down big timber. I will also ask her to get some video of the drills working.
Here's some stills that may give you an idea of the capabilities of a 200hp compact mulcher.
The first picture shows the density we can quickly punch through with the mini mulcher. The trees are not that big (3" to 6") but the density is very relevant on line cutting jobs. We don't have the luxury of opening up a hole and dropping one tree at a time into the clearing. We have to fall and mulch them straight ahead without exceeding the width of the machine. This requires big power since you end up with 6 or 7 trees being mulched at the same time as you create the line.
The other pictures show a 20" tree being mulched and the metadata on the photos show these shots were all taken in the same minute.
I am now considering building a new prototype for use as a demo and take it on a tour around Canada and the USA. I will also shoot some video to show what these little guys can really do and then judge the feasibility of a doing a production run.
Cheers,
Rob

 

[redprospector]

I'm glad I stumbled in here tonight. I'm getting ready to re-power my Fecon FTX90. I wasn't thinking of a 6 BT, but I am planning on using a 4 BT Cummins. I think that 130 +/- HP will be enough for my aplication. Any tips or tricks you can throw me would be appreciated mulcherguy.

Andy

 

[mulcherguy]

Adding more power is best accomplished by considering the bigger engine as part of an overall system upgrade. It is likely that your existing hydraulic pump does not have enough flow to remain below it's maximum working pressure rating. Likewise the hydraulic cooler(s) will have to be capable of shedding more heat. I did a john deere 4.5L 4cyl prototype and used a 100cc pump for the cutter wheel. If you have the 55cc pump in your existing FTX90 it will not be enough to transfer the extra torque from your 4bt. The 140 hp Rayco and Fecon machines would provide a good point of reference for component selection. Perhaps the guys that own them could offer their views on cooling performance, pressure settings etc. Basically what you want is for the hydraulic system to be capable of drawing down the engine below the rpm at which maximum torque is reached. If that occurs @ 1400 engine rpm then you set your multifunction valve to destroke the pump @ the pressure reached at this point. (and the relief valve 200psi beyong that).
If you leave in the little pump it will reach it's destroke pressure long before you are getting the torque benefit of your higher displacement engine. Also if you can keep the working pressures well below max it will help reduce the cooling requirements. The bigger the pump, the lower the pressure required to transfer torque.
Please post your results if you decide to go ahead with the project!

 

[tonyoz]

To repower the 140 the engine cannot be moved any further foward cause the bellhousing won't go past the fuel and hydraulic tanks. The frame will have to be extended to the rear to fit a larger engine. Also just a tip, when the side covers are made place the hinges as close to the centre of the bonnet as possable. The bonnet on mine is off at the moment and I cannot belive the amount of dirt there is in the engine bay which is impossable to clean out with a pressurecleaner when the bonnet is on

 

[APSmulching]

At work we put Deere engines in wheel loaders.

The 4045 TIER 3 is a 2 valve per cylinder engine, putting out 140hp at 2400rpm. Thats all for the 4045HF285, the 4045HF485 with 4 valves per cylinder goes to 175hp.

However there is one issue: the 140hp rating is already the highest "continuous duty" rating for this engine, the 156hp rating is an intermittent rating, only allowed to put out 135hp continuous.

To have this engine last in a forestry mulcher, you definately want an engine with a continous duty rating or the lifetime reduction will bite you in the back.

When tuning the TIER 2 engine, you could achieve a major saving in fuel consumption: The TIER 3A has EGR to control emissions, the TIER2 had a very late injection timing to control the exhaust temperatures (and therewith the NoX emission) which made this engine pretty powerless and a fuel hog. the TIER3A version is quite an improvement: The same improvement could be achieved by using an aftermarket ECU mapping, most of these engine tuners have cured this timing issue, meaning a bit more NoX emission but a 15% fuel saving and a more responsive engine.

The standard turbo of the 4045HF285 isnt capable of producing more hp because of the parasitic load of the EGR system. With the TIER 2 version i could only see improvements.

Swapping another motor in it: the Cummins QSB5.9 has a continuous rating up to 160hp somewhere, but at 190hp they didnt last 8000 hours. The JD 4045 has the same wet weight as the Cummins 5.9 because the JD is an non-road engine only, where the Cummins is also used on-road. The weight does bring the lifetime...

I think I am gonna try a tuner to correct the late timing issue on the 140's John Deere. If I can make it more responsive and more fuel efficient, that would be great. I would also have the option to turn up the fuel to make over 200 hp if I need it for big wood. I think if the tuner is left at a conservative level it's a great way to gain some power. I think the way the 140's pumps are set from the factory, you need about 220 HP to pull the load. If anyone is interested in a tuner, let me know. If I can gather at least 2 or 3 buyers, we can get a discount. They normally go for around 700.00 Anyone interested?

 

[GreensForestryMulching]

I think I am gonna try a tuner to correct the late timing issue on the 140's John Deere. If I can make it more responsive and more fuel efficient, that would be great. I would also have the option to turn up the fuel to make over 200 hp if I need it for big wood. I think if the tuner is left at a conservative level it's a great way to gain some power. I think the way the 140's pumps are set from the factory, you need about 220 HP to pull the load. If anyone is interested in a tuner, let me know. If I can gather at least 2 or 3 buyers, we can get a discount. They normally go for around 700.00 Anyone interested?

I Deal in Aftermarket diesel performance parts on the side can get a lot of stuff shoot me a pm with part numbers or what you are looking for and I can see what I can do!