He had both the CK30 HST, CK30 and the DK35. I told him I was in a very hilly area. He said I might be better off with a gear tractor as it has more power on the ground for the price. He also recommended R1 tires for maximum grip as the R4s tend to slip sideways on hills.
Loss of power with hydro over gear???
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DocHeb
Veteran Member
I'd like to hear others' opinions on advantages of HST vs. Gear for hilly areas. I know with my HST I can vary power/torque to the wheels to meet the needs of hill climbing, but I have no gear experience to compare it with. Do you have to stop to change gears to get extra torque to go up hills, then stop to change gears to get the extra speed on flatter areas?
JerryG
Super Member
I rarely stop to change gears or completely stop to change directions with my power-shuttle. More torque or more speed is what more gears are about, isn't that standard knowledge?
DocHeb
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I rarely stop to change gears or completely stop to change directions with my power-shuttle. More torque or more speed is what more gears are about, isn't that standard knowledge?)</font>
I do understand the inverse relationship of gearing for speed vs. torque, so I guess I do have that "standard knowledge". As I stated in my post, however, I am ignorant as to how applicable this is to everyday use as I have no experience. Because of my ignorance in this matter, I was very careful to not tout HST as better for hills than gear, but rather asked for informed opinions from somebody that has experience.
Thank you for the first part of your reply.
I do understand the inverse relationship of gearing for speed vs. torque, so I guess I do have that "standard knowledge". As I stated in my post, however, I am ignorant as to how applicable this is to everyday use as I have no experience. Because of my ignorance in this matter, I was very careful to not tout HST as better for hills than gear, but rather asked for informed opinions from somebody that has experience.
Thank you for the first part of your reply.
btolle
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'd like to hear others' opinions on advantages of HST vs. Gear for hilly areas. I know with my HST I can vary power/torque to the wheels to meet the needs of hill climbing, but I have no gear experience to compare it with. Do you have to stop to change gears to get extra torque to go up hills, then stop to change gears to get the extra speed on flatter areas? )</font>
Depends on the hill. I assume mean a hill steep enough to bog the engine down in a higher gear the the answer is yes, you would need to downshift. But if I am in Hi range with my HST I may have to shift to Lo range to get up that same hill.
As for gear vs. hydro I like my hydro but it is like air conditioning in a car, it will cost me power and fuel mileage. When I am hot I don't give a darn about horsepower and mileage, I just want to get cool. In other words, whatever HST costs me it is worth it to me. May not be to some, but that is a matter of personal choice and circumstances.
"There is no free lunch (or horsepower)."
Bill Tolle
Depends on the hill. I assume mean a hill steep enough to bog the engine down in a higher gear the the answer is yes, you would need to downshift. But if I am in Hi range with my HST I may have to shift to Lo range to get up that same hill.
As for gear vs. hydro I like my hydro but it is like air conditioning in a car, it will cost me power and fuel mileage. When I am hot I don't give a darn about horsepower and mileage, I just want to get cool. In other words, whatever HST costs me it is worth it to me. May not be to some, but that is a matter of personal choice and circumstances.
"There is no free lunch (or horsepower)."
Bill Tolle
JerryG
Super Member
The reason that I said it that way was because I knew that your hydro had a range selector. Other than that I guess I don't get what you are wanting. Unless it is to say that yes you do go to a higher gear to go faster and go to a lower gear to have more torque. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Bob_Skurka
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<font color="red">
I'd like to hear others' opinions on advantages of HST vs. Gear for hilly areas. </font>
I have a couple steep drops and I've used both gear and HST machines on my property. On the slopes I would never, let me repeat that NEVER, go back to working on a slope with a gear tractor after using HST on a slope. The only thing you have to do be be in the correct range (in my case LOW on my 2 range N.H. and LOW on my 3 range Kubota) but after that there is nothing to worry about. I could not even imagine doing any loader work on my slopes with a gear machine.
I'd like to hear others' opinions on advantages of HST vs. Gear for hilly areas. </font>
I have a couple steep drops and I've used both gear and HST machines on my property. On the slopes I would never, let me repeat that NEVER, go back to working on a slope with a gear tractor after using HST on a slope. The only thing you have to do be be in the correct range (in my case LOW on my 2 range N.H. and LOW on my 3 range Kubota) but after that there is nothing to worry about. I could not even imagine doing any loader work on my slopes with a gear machine.
_RaT_
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Doc, I use my L3830 with HST here at my place. I am in the Sirerra Foothills and as the name implies, it is hilly. I use my HST in medium for everything until I put on the boxscraper and put the rippers down, then I change gears by going to low range. There are a few other times I need low range. L is 0 - 4 mph, M is 0-7.5 and H is 0 -17 mph. The ranges work well for this tractor and the various things I do.
I also use a NH 2120 and a Kubota L4850 routinely, again, both in the foothills. Both are shuttle shifts and have larger engines. The Kubota is an 8X8, the NH a 12X12. When using a box scraper with the rippers down, both require low gears. The Kubota works best in 2, the NH in 3. I find the biggest drawback is in loader use where you in location A and need to get to point B. When moving 3 or 4 truck loads of topsoil, you still need to use the lower gears to get into the pile and heap your bucket, but then shift your range lever as well as you gear selection lever to get to 5 or 6 to deliver the material. You do have to be stopped to change the range selector on both. UPshifting is easy within the same range. If you have a hill with any climb, you need to drop back down etc... With my HST, I will go from L to H or M depending on the distance. M will climb most hills with a bucket load, H will not climb hills but works well on small grades. All in all, they all work well some with just a little less work. As far as shifitng gears on the shuttles, I do it for long distances, from 4th to 7th on the Kubota, the NH is trickier with its funky gear selector on the column.
I also use a NH 2120 and a Kubota L4850 routinely, again, both in the foothills. Both are shuttle shifts and have larger engines. The Kubota is an 8X8, the NH a 12X12. When using a box scraper with the rippers down, both require low gears. The Kubota works best in 2, the NH in 3. I find the biggest drawback is in loader use where you in location A and need to get to point B. When moving 3 or 4 truck loads of topsoil, you still need to use the lower gears to get into the pile and heap your bucket, but then shift your range lever as well as you gear selection lever to get to 5 or 6 to deliver the material. You do have to be stopped to change the range selector on both. UPshifting is easy within the same range. If you have a hill with any climb, you need to drop back down etc... With my HST, I will go from L to H or M depending on the distance. M will climb most hills with a bucket load, H will not climb hills but works well on small grades. All in all, they all work well some with just a little less work. As far as shifitng gears on the shuttles, I do it for long distances, from 4th to 7th on the Kubota, the NH is trickier with its funky gear selector on the column.
EastTexFrank
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="blue"> Do you have to stop to change gears to get extra torque to go up hills, then stop to change gears to get the extra speed on flatter areas? </font> )</font>
Yup. On a straight gear tractor that's what you have to do if you need to keep the rpm within a specific range (for mowing). A synchro-shuttle is better but there is sometimes a "dead" spot when the transmission is shifting that will cause the tractor to slow down or even stop or roll back a little on hills before it engages that can cause your heart to miss a beat. Give me HST every time. You have much more control, going up or coming down hills, while still maintaining PTO rpms.
To me, the loss of PTO hp with a hydro is a non issue. If you need a specific PTO hp, then that's what you buy whether it's geared or hydro. If you have to step up one size compared to a gear tractor .... so what.
Yup. On a straight gear tractor that's what you have to do if you need to keep the rpm within a specific range (for mowing). A synchro-shuttle is better but there is sometimes a "dead" spot when the transmission is shifting that will cause the tractor to slow down or even stop or roll back a little on hills before it engages that can cause your heart to miss a beat. Give me HST every time. You have much more control, going up or coming down hills, while still maintaining PTO rpms.
To me, the loss of PTO hp with a hydro is a non issue. If you need a specific PTO hp, then that's what you buy whether it's geared or hydro. If you have to step up one size compared to a gear tractor .... so what.
DocHeb
Veteran Member
For example, a semi-truck can have 13 or more gears, and each one is effective in only a very narrow engine rpm/torque/ground speed ratio. A semi going up and down hills is shifting constantly and can have wide swings in ground speed. With gear tractors, are the gearing ranges more flexible and cover a wider range, and can you change gears on the fly without stopping?
I guess the best answer you can give me is that you have a gear tractor and have no problems with hills. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I guess the best answer you can give me is that you have a gear tractor and have no problems with hills. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
