Low Buck grapple build

[alchemysa]

Hard to tell from here but your rear mount may need a lot more support from something that continues down the back of the bucket. Theres going to be huge stress on this mount. It could break, or simply if it flexes too much the grapple will lose grip while you are carrying heavy stuff between the teeth and the front edge of the bucket. For example if you were gripping a railway sleeper.)

 

[KentT]

I have a kubota with a 4in1 bucket that is just fantastic, but I usually cant exactly 'see' what I'm grabbing so I have to guess the position. That would be pretty hard if I just had a couple of skinny teeth to play with. And apart from the visibility i think the extra wide grip provided by a bar would open up a whole lot of useful options. Perhaps a bar is something you could add or remove with a few bolts as needed.

I dealt with the issue of visibility by painting the ends of the teeth white so they're visible in the middle of a pile of brush. Got that idea from Fourteen, another PT-425 owner.

I tried a bolt-on bar across the teeth and found it to actually be counterproductive for most uses. Squeezing the narrow "fingers" usually allowed me to compress more brush into the "bite" than when it had the bar across it. That was one experiment that had mixed results...

 

[alchemysa]

I dealt with the issue of visibility by painting the ends of the teeth white so they're visible in the middle of a pile of brush. Got that idea from Fourteen, another PT-425 owner.

I tried a bolt-on bar across the teeth and found it to actually be counterproductive for most uses. Squeezing the narrow "fingers" usually allowed me to compress more brush into the "bite" than when it had the bar across it. That was one experiment that had mixed results...

You have much better visibility than me KentT. I could have my 'grapple' painted fluoro yellow and i still wouldnt be able to see it below the hood of the Kubota. I think Ryan03 may have the same problem. So for grabbing something small, low, and heavy, my method is to drift slowly forward til I hit my target then bring the front of the 4in1 down. Its all done by 'touch'. Of course it all depends on what you are tackling and how much versatility you want. Picking up a log or bunch of brush 'blind' wouldnt be hard but I dont know how you'd yank a bush or post out of the ground with a grapple if you couldnt see the teeth.

Hey Ryan03, Can you see where those teeth connect with the leading edge of the bucket from the drivers seat?

 

[alchemysa]

Ryan. Sorry to continue in the roll of a killjoy but i've noticed something else that may warrant consideration. The current geometry of the grapple means the arc of the teeth won't efficiently pull brush or logs back towards the bucket, and when closed the teeth are almost parallel with the bucket sides. So you may be quite limited in what you can pick up, and this may be especially noticable when you try to pick up things wider than the bucket. My simple photochop pic attached crudely illustrates the point. As illustrated in the pic you may find that large logs are hard to get a grip on (unless you have the bucket rolled down into the dump position). I think most professional grapples sweep well out in front of the bucket and finish with the teeth almost pointing back towards the bucket. One option for you may be to lengthen the mount I marked with an 'A' by about 6 inches. A toothbar or set of lightweight short forks would also help enormously as you can see in KentT's pic. I'm no engineer so i could be creating a problem that doesnt exist but you might want to think about it.


Perhaps I should add that the geomery of my own 'grapple' (a 4in1) makes me a little more aware of the problem you may face, although the 4in1 sort of solves it by being able able to reach well over the target and scoop 'backwards' if that makes sense - so small brush and small logs still end up in the bucket as desired or gripped between the opposing edges of the bucket.

 

[IslandTractor]

Ryan. Sorry to continue in the roll of a killjoy ...... The current geometry of the grapple means the arc of the teeth won't efficiently pull brush or logs back towards the bucket, and when closed the teeth are almost parallel with the bucket sides. So you may be quite limited in what you can pick up, and this may be especially noticable when you try to pick up things wider than the bucket. My simple photochop pic attached crudely illustrates the point. As illustrated in the pic you may find that large logs are hard to get a grip on (unless you have the bucket rolled down into the dump position). I think most professional grapples sweep well out in front of the bucket and finish with the teeth almost pointing back towards the bucket.

I don't think your analysis is correct. For starters, most "professional" grapples do not have a large overbite and therefore will also require "dumping" the grapple down in order to pick up something at ground level that cannot simply be scooped up. See photos. (first shows "dump" position to use grapple, second shows lack of overbite on "professional" grapple and third shows bucket grapple with similar, normal, lack of overbite).

Secondly, unless the bucket to FEL connection geometry has been changed (which in this case it has not), then the normal full dump angle should be plenty to allow the grapple teeth to engage a large log when coming down on top of the log with the bucket grapple. An inherent weakness in all bucket grapples is that the bucket sides interfer with loading material that extends beyond the bucket walls, such as a long pole or tree trunk, but that doesn't mean you cannot pick one up. It may prevent you from picking up several at the same time, which a standard grapple can do, but certainly you can pick up full length logs with bucket grapples just as you can with a 4n1. Check out some of 3RRLs photos in the past or maybe he will post one to demonstrate the point.

 

[alchemysa]

I don't think your analysis is correct. .

Sure, we all learn little tricks to improve the performance (or overcome the shortcomings) of our attachments (such as dipping the grapple into dump position) but preferably we hope that the design of the implement will minimise the need for such tricks and make the implement as useful as possible for the widest number of situations. In this case it appears from the photos that Ryan03's 'overbite' (good word!) is particularly short and is going to require a lot of operator 'trickery' that could perhaps be avoided with a few modifications now. I can imagine situations where having to put the bucket into dump position every time you want to grab something could be quite annoying. (Especially if you can't see the object). I'm not really sure if the photos you attached support your argument or mine. The ATI grapple attachment for example would reach well out in front of the bucket when its in the open position and would not require going into dump mode to grab a bunch of brush. Anyway, Ryan03's grapple will be a great addition no matter how it finally looks and I'm sure he'll have a grin from ear to ear everytime he uses it.

 

[IslandTractor]

Sure, we all learn little tricks to improve the performance (or overcome the shortcomings) of our attachments (such as dipping the grapple into dump position) but preferably we hope that the design of the implement will minimise the need for such tricks and make the implement as useful as possible for the widest number of situations.

I understand your point. However, I have what you refer to as a professional grapple and if I placed a log (similar to the one in your earlier graphic) up against the bottom lip/jaw of my grapple, I could not close the top grapple jaw and capture that log. I would instead need to put the lower jaw under the log, move forward, and then close the grapple. With a bucket grapple that is harder to do because the sides will push the log forward and that is one of the inherent problems with bucket grapples. However, using a slight "dump" position when you approach such a log would work just fine with either a pro grapple or the bucket grapples, including the one fabricated by Ryan03. You would simply approach the log with the bucket in a slight dump postion and once you touched the log you close the grapple arm. I don't personally think of the "slight dump" approach to be adapting for a deficiency in tool design but rather as the appropriate technique for using that particular tool. Obviously if one was to build a purpose built implement just to pick up telephone poles one might do something different than either Ryan or Millonzi has done but as general purpose grapple bucket or grapple, both the designs seem very reasonable to me.

 

[alchemysa]

I don't personally think of the "slight dump" approach to be adapting for a deficiency in tool design but rather as the appropriate technique for using that particular tool. .

A 'slight dump' approach is one thing, but I think Ryan is going to need just about a 'full dump' approach. Thats fine for grabbing logs, but Ryans device isnt just a grapple, its a bucket with a grapple attachment and perhaps he's not going to enjoy the full potential of that combination. Sometimes its handy to be able to scoop and grab at the same time such as when you are cleaning up a pile of busted concrete or other mixed size rubble or rubbish. The relatively short straight style of Ryans teeth will also limit his grabbing capacity. He'll never have the capacity of your mighty unit but even the Millonzi and Tatro bucket grapples have large curved teeth for good reason. They reach a long way even when the bucket is level, and in the closed position they still have plenty of space under the teeth. Whilst Ryan can only work with what he's got, I'm just suggesting that a slight lenghtening and re-angling of the top hinges might make all the difference. (I could be wrong of course). But no-matter what he does, in the end he'll increase the use of his tractor enormously. Any form of grapple turns a tractor from being a powered wheelbarrow into a workhorse on a whole new level.

 

[IslandTractor]

Any form of grapple turns a tractor from being a powered wheelbarrow into a workhorse on a whole new level.

Now we are in total agreement!

 

[alchemysa]

Now we are in total agreement!

I rarely stop raving about how useful the 4in1 bucket is. I reckon that one way or the other I use the grapple part of the bucket just about every time I start the Kubota. Every tractor owner should try one for a day. Its a real eye opener to see how limited a basic bucket is compared to something that can also 'grab'. I'm sure you feel the same about your grapple.

C'mon Ryan, just finish that **** grapple so we can hear how much you love it!