Low Buck grapple build

[IslandTractor]

I rarely stop raving about how useful the 4in1 bucket is.

That is next on my list of implements. I am trying to convince Millonzi to build a light duty version (not for skid steer but for CUT) similar to the one you have. I don't think Kubota makes those anymore and just about all the available 4n1s are either too big or wildly expensive (eg ATI, WRLong). We need a $1200 light duty 4n1.

 

[alchemysa]

I am trying to convince Millonzi to build a light duty version :

Good luck with that! Superficially it may seem that a 4in1 is just a bucket with a grapple but theres more to it than that. Its better to think if it as a dozer blade with a swing-up bucket. Mine is pretty old and very heavy. I dont know what brand it is. Its really at the limit of what this little Kubota can manage. I've seen others that look a bit lighter and simpler, but its unavoidable that some parts need to be very heavy duty . The dozer cutting edge takes quite a pounding, and the back edge of the bucket also needs to be strong. Having 4 rams also means theres a fair bit of plumbing, weight and expense. I'm surprised that Kubota dont offer one anymore. Perhaps they think they put too much stress on the loader arms. And all that weight means you certainly need a counterweight at the back end for balance and traction.

 

[alchemysa]

I meant to add these pics to the message above.

 

[Ryan03]

I have just about finished our new deck, got the engine rebuild all done on the gator, and dont have another tractor demo derby for another month or so, and we decided not to go racing at Norwalk next week, so once our out of town company leaves Sunday, it will be all a$$es and elbows on the grapple. I think that my design, although not perfect, will greatly increase the productivity of my tractor. One of the things that I was trying to eliminate with the grapple was the constant need to get off the machine and chain up logs and strap brush. I also contemplated putting a long bar across the jaws near the tips, but I can think of just as many ways that it will hinder me as benifit me. I think I may end up making a removeable bar to go up there so that I can have the best of both worlds. I was just mowing on the kubota today, driving around all the tree limbs and brush piles in our field, and saying to myself { I realy need to finish that grapple }. Also, one nice thing abour my grapple is that it can be removed in about 10 minutes

 

[IslandTractor]

Good luck with that! Superficially it may seem that a 4in1 is just a bucket with a grapple but theres more to it than that. Its better to think if it as a dozer blade with a swing-up bucket. Mine is pretty old and very heavy. I dont know what brand it is. Its really at the limit of what this little Kubota can manage. I've seen others that look a bit lighter and simpler, but its unavoidable that some parts need to be very heavy duty . The dozer cutting edge takes quite a pounding, and the back edge of the bucket also needs to be strong. Having 4 rams also means theres a fair bit of plumbing, weight and expense. I'm surprised that Kubota dont offer one anymore. Perhaps they think they put too much stress on the loader arms. And all that weight means you certainly need a counterweight at the back end for balance and traction.

I almost have them convinced the issue is how to get it a bit lighter and they are thinking about that. Millonzi already makes the bigger skid steer 4n1s so they have a basic design and fabrication experience it is just a matter of scaling down a bit which is easy for size but not so simple in choosing materials. I agree that the cutting edges and hinges need to be tough but don't see why other parts of the bucket need to be any thicker steel than my regular bucket.

You mention 4 rams but I believe most 4n1s have two rams. Am I mistaken?

My FEL lifts 1070lbs at pivot pins so I think I'd still have useful capacity if the 4n1 weighed in at less than 350-400. As I have a grapple and bucket for moving big logs and sand etc, I am most interested in the 4n1 to push and scrape as well as do the odd bucket/grapple thing.

 

[alchemysa]

I almost have them convinced the issue is how to get it a bit lighter and they are thinking about that. Millonzi already makes the bigger skid steer 4n1s so they have a basic design and fabrication experience it is just a matter of scaling down a bit which is easy for size but not so simple in choosing materials. I agree that the cutting edges and hinges need to be tough but don't see why other parts of the bucket need to be any thicker steel than my regular bucket.

You mention 4 rams but I believe most 4n1s have two rams. Am I mistaken?

My FEL lifts 1070lbs at pivot pins so I think I'd still have useful capacity if the 4n1 weighed in at less than 350-400. As I have a grapple and bucket for moving big logs and sand etc, I am most interested in the 4n1 to push and scrape as well as do the odd bucket/grapple thing.

Its 4 including the usual 2 bucket rams that most loaders have anyway. Theres 1 small ram each side of the bucket to operate the grapple. That seems to be common to most 4in1's but maybe a clever engineer could design it with just 1 ram in the middle. Mine is only a 300 kg loader (with a 5 gpm pump) so I lose a bit of lift capacity with such a heavy bucket but its worth the compromise. (I notice this most when I've got forks on the front of the bucket). Some of the sheet steel could probably be lighter but it needs a pretty sturdy frame around all the edges. Some clever folds and and bends could add strength in place of just relying on brute metal thickness. The bottom of the grapple need to be very strong so it doesnt get bent while backdragging or pulling stumps out of the ground. Regarding width, it needs to be at least as wide as the tractor wheels so it can doze efficiently. Some 4in1's often don't have the volume capacity of a dedicated bucket but thats another small compromise worth putting up with in most cases. And mine doesn't curl back as much as I'd like but thats another minor shortcoming probably just unique to mine.

One other benefit of a 4in1 is that you can build and dump on a higher pile because you dont have to dip the bucket to unload. You can just open the grapple and let the dirt or brush drop out the bottom. Its a handy feature when you've only got limited lift height in a small tractor. (See, I'm raving about it again).

Good luck with your dealings with Millonzi. With their grapple and bucket experience they should already be halfway home. I'm sure you've already offered to extensively field test the thing for free.

 

[3RRL]

snip .... but certainly you can pick up full length logs with bucket grapples just as you can with a 4n1. Check out some of 3RRLs photos in the past or maybe he will post one to demonstrate the point.

Island, thanks for the invite. You always do such a good job explaining that I only jump in on request now.

Here are some bucket grapple photos:















Mine has worked good enough for any job I've encountered. And like Island, I've got plenty of hours on the grapples now. I've saved a bundle of time and money in comparison to the small expense of installing them.

 

[Ryan03]

I have gotten all of the cylinder brackets welded on and the cylinder installed, all thats left is to plumb it. I got a good deal on an electric solenoid hyd valve, I am going to try and economicaly set it up with two buttons on the floorboard by the brake pedals, one for opening and one for closing as described in some of my earlier post, wish me luck.

 

[IslandTractor]

Good luck and don't forget to take photos of the whole installation process. Keep us posted.

 

[6sunset6]

I just finished putting a thumb on my bucket . First thing I did was bang my head on the thumb when it was up in the air and I was rolling something into the bucket. Should have used the thumb but I can't see it. So the high tech solution is to use a pinhole wireless camera( model train parts) really long focal length , mount it so it can see down in front of the bucket and then ahh don't have the other end. Need a 12v small screen with video input that I can see in sunlight . then I can see what I need to see. This would also work to see if the bucket is full when scooping up stuff. I think a good operator can tell by feel but I am not that good. Heck they put lasers on graders to make things level , why not a camera. I have the front end ,if I can make it all work I will post it.