Loader LS Loader Performance

   / LS Loader Performance #21  
I bought my U5030C new in May. Does it have the new and improved cylinders? How can I tell? Thanks.

It is my understanding that the 2011 models increased the cylinder size. You could probably do some research but the best thing to do is pick some heavy crap up and see how it does.
I am continually impressed with mine. I did some scrap metal recovery on the farm today and I pulled out an old trailer and lifted it to the transport trailer...this thing was all angle iron and old steel...it was very heavy...I could not even lift the tongue on the trailer by hand when it was free and clear. Anyway I hope Short Game can get his working to his satisfaction because I am lifting some really heavy crap and laughing like a kid on a roller coaster when I do it.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #22  
J_J said:
Short Game is probably right in his assessment of the pressure, and the location of the tilt pins/tabs

If the loader was designed this way, then as Short Game said, that is unsatisfactory for his use.

The loader specs should have been stated, as most loaders have specs showing the lift force and the breakout force.

You can fool around with the relief setting if you know the pumps limit on psi.

Another option is to obtain a different loader bucket that better matches the desired capability, or build one to suit .

Larger cyl will help a whole lot . see below.

The mounting pins and distance from the cyl wall has to be just right. May be a problem.

Using 2500 psi, a 2 in cyl 1 in shaft, will develop a force of 7,864 lbs

-------------------3 in cyl, 1.5 in shaft, will develop a force of 17,671 lbs

As of 2010 they list the breakout and lift force here http://www.lstractorusa.com/attachments/attachments/front-end-loaders/loader-LL4100.html
 
   / LS Loader Performance #23  
Short Game,

Does the specs on the LL4100 equate to anything you experience.

2500 lbs at the lift pins, and 4300 lbs on the breakout force.

If the relief goes off, that means that you have the pressure, and if you can tilt the load so it is balanced on top of the pivot pins, then it should be able to lift up to the 2500 lbs as specified. The one thing that will prevent that from happening, is the pressure lost in the cyl or valve.

If you have a pressure loss in the cyl or valve, the relief will not activate.

When I observed my loader not lifting the specified weight, I suspected the cyls and rebuilt them, but did not fix the problem. I then removed the valve and had it tested. Still not the problem. Found out the pump was not pumping up to the specified pressure, about half. I then installed a gage in the loader circuit, and now I can monitor the pressure from that particular pump.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #24  
Short Game,

Does the specs on the LL4100 equate to anything you experience.

2500 lbs at the lift pins, and 4300 lbs on the breakout force.

If the relief goes off, that means that you have the pressure, and if you can tilt the load so it is balanced on top of the pivot pins, then it should be able to lift up to the 2500 lbs as specified. The one thing that will prevent that from happening, is the pressure lost in the cyl or valve.

If you have a pressure loss in the cyl or valve, the relief will not activate.

When I observed my loader not lifting the specified weight, I suspected the cyls and rebuilt them, but did not fix the problem. I then removed the valve and had it tested. Still not the problem. Found out the pump was not pumping up to the specified pressure, about half. I then installed a gage in the loader circuit, and now I can monitor the pressure from that particular pump.

I've never noticed if the overall lift of the booms was all that weak. The roll back is what is noticeably weak when compared to the Cub Cadet's 417 loader (a Woods 162 from what I see online). When I put the dealer's gauge on the bucket roll back line, it was at the specified pressure or really close (it was a 10,000 pound, full scale, dial and not that easy to read a few pounds at 2422 psi.) when the relief lifted. The booms are a foot shorter than the CC loader, so they have less work to do with the load at the bucket, except that the bucket is farther from the boom end by about a foot.

I think the figures on the website reflect the larger bucket cylinders of the 2011s. My documentation says: 2186 lbs at the lift pins, and 3042 lbs on the breakout force.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #25  
Today I got another example of the weakness of the roll-back of the LL4100 loader on my R4010G. My neighbors' old, dead, Cub Cadet lawn tractor was in their way and they asked me if I wanted it. Back when it was still running I used to work on it a lot, and had on several occasions, had to move it around with my Cub Cadet 7274 (Mitsubishi) and its CC 417 loader. This is the first time I have tried to move it with the LS and it failed me again on roll-back power. I only wanted to tip the bucket back just a little to get the bucket blade to press against it so it wouldn't swing around on the hook. Darned if it wasn't too heavy for this loader to even do that. Here is a picture of it hanging on my bucket hook. When I tried to just tip the bucket back, it wouldn't move, just coming up on the relief, which I've measured at prescribed operating pressure. That chain pulling straight down on that hook was too much for it. In order to get the bucket into the position I needed it in to move the thing, I had to set the lawn tractor back down and tip it back with no weight on it. It's shockingly gutless.

I'm now less than three hours from my 300 hour maintenance.

bucket_gripes_006.jpg
 
   / LS Loader Performance #26  
I have noticed that the curl on my P7010 seems to be getting weaker with age. It will definitely lift more than it will curl so there is something wrong somewhere. If I try to curl the bucket when I am trying to load a full bucket of dirt or rock, it just wont break out the load and I have to back out of the debris pile while lifting up the load to get anywhere near a full load. I am out of the country now, so I cant check anything, but that is for sure something that I have to look at when I get home.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #27  
Today I got another example of the weakness of the roll-back of the LL4100 loader on my R4010G. My neighbors' old, dead, Cub Cadet lawn tractor was in their way and they asked me if I wanted it. Back when it was still running I used to work on it a lot, and had on several occasions, had to move it around with my Cub Cadet 7274 (Mitsubishi) and its CC 417 loader. This is the first time I have tried to move it with the LS and it failed me again on roll-back power. I only wanted to tip the bucket back just a little to get the bucket blade to press against it so it wouldn't swing around on the hook. Darned if it wasn't too heavy for this loader to even do that. Here is a picture of it hanging on my bucket hook. When I tried to just tip the bucket back, it wouldn't move, just coming up on the relief, which I've measured at prescribed operating pressure. That chain pulling straight down on that hook was too much for it. In order to get the bucket into the position I needed it in to move the thing, I had to set the lawn tractor back down and tip it back with no weight on it. It's shockingly gutless.

I'm now less than three hours from my 300 hour maintenance.

bucket_gripes_006.jpg

What year is your LS? I have been hearing that they modified the cylinders up front a bit on the "new" models. May be the issue with yours.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #28  
What year is your LS? I have been hearing that they modified the cylinders up front a bit on the "new" models. May be the issue with yours.

It's a 2010 and yes, I personally discovered the larger bucket cylinders at the dealer on the 2011. This was after I'd been griping about my disappointments with this loader at length here already. It's too bad, because I like the tractor for lots of reasons, and the people at the dealer have been great too. LS just blew it on this tractor. That doesn't do me much good, so I gripe. I was the inspiration for this thread. If you are interested, I wrote a lot about this issue here.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #29  
Are the newer cylinders able to fit on your loader? I will bet you can sell your current cylinders pretty quick. May be a fix for you, not that it make a fella feel good but just a thought.
 
   / LS Loader Performance #30  
I think I would hit my dealer up to check that. No way should the tractor pick up a load that it wont curl. It should be just the opposite. I know when I tried to unload a disc from a trailer with my Yanmar, it wouldnt lift it with the loader arms, but when I curled the bucket it came right up which is in line with the stats for lift capacity vs curl capacity. My 7010 has a diverter valve at the left side of the lift arms up in front and it has an adjustable relief on it which I have turned a couple of rounds. There should be one on the lift arms also,my yanmar only has one on the joystick control, but I havent looked under the plastic cowl for anything like that. I dont think that one that I adjusted has any bearing on the lift arm cylinders just looking at the oil lines.
 

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