Lubricity of diesel

bugstruck · Dec 8, 2005

Certainly can be done.…...I presume. All Science is, at the end of the day, Man.... observing and measuring. No matter how sophisticated the machinery and methods. It will always mystify those of us not fully educated in those methods and will always have obstacles and limitations in it's ability. I don't automatically assume every expert's opinion as flawless. Most do. Skypup's opinions are among the most believable of the experts I bump up against, as he has common sense and broad experience and interests. He thinks well outside the box IMO. Plus, he's got game. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Doesn't mean I won't question his knowledge though. I've seen enough bad expert advice to be the skeptic. He's correct in everything he's stated here IMO, but he's not in any way acknowledging the limitations of the Science either. He knows what and if there are any.

So I am to believe there are no limitations? That every source well on this planet has a unique signature chemical composition? That all dispersal methods of these fluids are fully known and tracked from every location and through all processes? That all additive chemicals are known at every step of the process? That nothing in this industry is Proprietary in regards to blends and as such, not closely guarded? And the only question here that may have real legs......That no two refiners could have the same exact source and refining process? Perhaps Skypup knows those answers. I ponder as I don't know. I'm not a bona fide believer until my skepticism is reasonably squelched. He usually gets me/us there and we learn along the way. Just a little tougher to get some of us sold. He's close.

I do genuinely Appreciate the reply. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I also understand that you’re not the skeptic I am. That’s a trait I admire. Got to have some balance. Enjoy the day!!

Watching Skypup and CP, I'm not sure who's having more fun with whom? Skypup is way up in the technical division, but the scoring in the banter division may be slightly in CP's favor. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Not placing any bet's on this one yet. The factual read has Skypup way ahead, but the between the lines.... I'm LOL about ready to fall off my chair. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif CP is getting to him.

SkyPup · Dec 8, 2005

When it comes down to it, every single atom of every single element can be accounted for in the periodic element chart, including all the protons, neutrons, electrons.

Egon · Dec 8, 2005

Now all we got to do is figure out what is in an atom!

Egon

bugstruck · Dec 8, 2005

I'm with you up to the extraction or measuring of component parts of the atoms. Now that you have that, are you saying that would be the absolute signature and any other samples from any other source would be have to yield a different result? If for no other reason than that the refining processes applied to make that test material would differentiate from all other possible samples, even in the unlikely event the originating source materials were identical? I now think that's what you've been saying all along. Just not in a way I understood. If so, you have it traced to the refinery. Doesn't matter their processes, just that their results will always be unique to them, irregardless the source material.

Determining the source material would almost seem the easier part of the equation if all the possible sources have been quantified and measured at some point.

How deep is that hole I just dug? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I'm in over my head from about right here. But I do have a better understanding that the trail didn't run cold at the contributing elements level. Your drillin pretty deep.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm on board now!! Skepticism effectively squelched.

Man I enjoy this place when it gets Rockin. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

cp1969 · Dec 8, 2005

( First contact a freight shipping company to come and transport your 30 gallons of hazardous flammable material that you've concoccted and are planning to ship, then contact an ASTM certified organic petrochemical analytical laboratory and tell them all the variety of tests you want to pay for. )

Well, since I've never had or seen this done, I don't know of any. But you apparently have...why not share some names with me? I can get the stuff shipped, that's not a problem. The tests I want to run are 1.) Who made this fuel and 2.) Which tank did it come out of? The second question will be particularly interesting since the contents of any given storage tank at a distribution terminal are constantly changing, so it seems they'll have to be able to provide a date with that tank info as well.

No problem, right?

edit: btw, diesel is, for transportation purposes, not considered a flammable liquid. It is a combustible liquid, a distinction that makes transporting it less of a hassle than gasoline, which is considered a flammable liquid.

Also, for a man of science who knows a lot about diesel, you might be interested to know that #2 doesn't weigh "about" eight pounds per gallon. It weighs "about" seven pounds per gallon, unless 7.2 rounds to 8 at your lab. It rounds to seven at my house.

SkyPup · Dec 9, 2005

Since we buy fuel in gallons which is a lot closer to kilograms, wouldn't that give much better results? 

For a man of complete non-science, that is not even an approximate shot. Have you tried contacting a professional analytical petrochemical testing facility yet or just going to keep fantasizing here endlessly.... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I suggest you enroll in an eight year univeristy graduate organic chemisty program and get started learning now what it is you want to know about so much so that after you've paid all your hard earned money for all your petrochemical tests and analysis, you'll at least be able to read and understand the results.... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Dargo · Dec 9, 2005

Based on my analysis, my diesel had a bit of a bitter taste, perhaps a bit of old dung, no woody taste (apparently not aged in any wooden barrels), a very strong bouquet (indicative of some sort of petroleum base), and a long lasting after taste. It didn't finish clean, but did not have the gummy texture that may be associated with staleness. I couldn't discern any rust, so mine was kept in some fairly clean tanks. I also didn't note any water, suggesting that the tanks were not in the deep south where humidity may be an issue. It did not seem to cling between my teeth, so I don't think any lubricity addative was present, but did have the harsh twang of a stabilizer for winter time anti-thickening. Therefore, my analysis says that my diesel came from a northern area, (perhaps Canada) in steel or aluminum tanks, and is of relative recent refining. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SkyPup · Dec 9, 2005

Excellent first person diesel review! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The human nose and taste buds utilize their cellular lipid bilayer membranes to detect inorganic ionic and non-polar organic compounds in the parts per million range, the same methodology as a simple spectrophotometer or chromatography system. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

bugstruck · Dec 9, 2005

If we only would have asked you sooner...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif LOL Just taste it. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

IH3444 · Dec 9, 2005

Some mornings I almost regularly get a splash of diesel on me. I love the smell of diesel fuel, or fumes first thang in the morning.......... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif