Lyme Disease - US NE

[teejk]

I don't know how they can find the little things. I just know a lot of people have them and they do control the bugs.

A neighbor recently decided to start raising chickens that he free-ranges on his lawn during the day. Maybe in his head but he swears they have seen a decrease in ticks and mosquitos and black flies. I guess when you watch them they keep moving around, scratch the dirt and eat anything that comes up.

 

[hillwood]

A neighbor recently decided to start raising chickens that he free-ranges on his lawn during the day. Maybe in his head but he swears they have seen a decrease in ticks and mosquitos and black flies. I guess when you watch them they keep moving around, scratch the dirt and eat anything that comes up.

Chickens will eat ticks and most other bugs they can find. They don't dig and eat the larva like guineas.

 

[Soundguy]

Yes, the majority of schizophrenics have onset earlier in life but almost a quarter of all cases are diagnosed after age 40. Diagnosis at 55 is atypical but well recognized.

On the flip side, Lyme Disease is still pretty uncommon in Manitoba. In the past five years there have been an average of a few dozen cases diagnosed per year. Neurological involvement in Lyme is not typical so with only dozens of cases reported it is pretty unlikely that a rare neurological complication would occur. "Never say never" is a common aphorism in medical circles but at the same time it is clear that late onset schizophrenia would be far more common in Manitoba than a rare complication of Lyme.

Whatever the cause, I hope your friend is being followed by a good psychiatrist.

Question, is it possible that one could have a Lyme infection, be treated for it, actually killing the infecting agent, but have some sort of long term ongoing auto immune response, IE Inflammation or joint pain, perhaps as a response to a remnant protien or some other trace marker... And while Lyme itself is gone, the continuing symptoms are what is seen as the chronic case? It holds true with some other infections, post infection complications like ph neuralgia, even read of some chronic problems in some Ebola survivors, where even after clearing the virus, they still have ongoing issues?

 

[IslandTractor]

Question, is it possible that one could have a Lyme infection, be treated for it, actually killing the infecting agent, but have some sort of long term ongoing auto immune response, IE Inflammation or joint pain, perhaps as a response to a remnant protien or some other trace marker... And while Lyme itself is gone, the continuing symptoms are what is seen as the chronic case? It holds true with some other infections, post infection complications like ph neuralgia, even read of some chronic problems in some Ebola survivors, where even after clearing the virus, they still have ongoing issues?

Yes. That is the currently "best accepted" theory about post Lyme persistent symptoms that affect a small minority of properly treated patients. I would add that while there are other pretty well documented examples of this phenomenon (Rheumatic fever being the best understood), it is only a hypothesis for Lyme. I haven't looked recently but don't recall any specific data showing unusual immune reactions after Lyme but it may just be a matter of needing to develop more sensitive or specific tests. What is known pretty well is that further antibiotic treatment (beyond 4-6 weeks) is no better than no extra treatment at all. What is also true is that most of the post Lyme therapy patients do eventually recover. When someone is from a non endemic area without clearly documented Lyme and has symptoms that persist for years after therapy, the odds are that the cause is something unrelated to Lyme.

The Ebola story is more complicated as there appears to be live virus sequestered in sites like eye and semen so that story is different.

 

[NorTracNY]

I have chickens already that often free range. I don't see them helping too much. I have read that the guinea will go after rats and mice. If the ticks for lyme are too small, maybe that are just keeping the mice that carry ticks away. I have purchased my lifetime supply of permethrin and will also do tick tubes. Thanks for all the info.

 

[Soundguy]

Yes. That is the currently "best accepted" theory about post Lyme persistent symptoms .......

The Ebola story is more complicated as there appears to be live virus sequestered in sites like eye and semen so that story is different.

True, the ebola wasn't a perfect comparison. Based on my non doctor, engineering background, the response to some trace remnant was what sounded plausible to me. Seems very similar to the way we make a vaccine. Find a protien that causes an immune response. Perhaps in some people.. lyme leaves a 'footprint' in some places ( joints for instance ), and the body stays aggravatid because of this. My wife had parvo B19 ( confirmed via blood test ). It was causing joint pain. First 3 doctors treated her for arthritis or inflamation till one finally ordered a few blood tests. Found out later that the nurse at the school my wife teaches at had it as well. In any case, long after it cleared, she had the joint pain.. it DID eventually go away.. but situations like that led me to my above theory.. remnant footprint that causes some sort of reaction after the infective agent is gone, or no longer active.

 

[IslandTractor]

True, the ebola wasn't a perfect comparison. Based on my non doctor, engineering background, the response to some trace remnant was what sounded plausible to me. Seems very similar to the way we make a vaccine. Find a protien that causes an immune response. Perhaps in some people.. lyme leaves a 'footprint' in some places ( joints for instance ), and the body stays aggravatid because of this. My wife had parvo B19 ( confirmed via blood test ). It was causing joint pain. First 3 doctors treated her for arthritis or inflamation till one finally ordered a few blood tests. Found out later that the nurse at the school my wife teaches at had it as well. In any case, long after it cleared, she had the joint pain.. it DID eventually go away.. but situations like that led me to my above theory.. remnant footprint that causes some sort of reaction after the infective agent is gone, or no longer active.

Yes, could be remnant "footprint" but could also just be hyper revved up immune system that is attacking something normal that "reminds" it of the pathogen. Our immune system is very powerful and can sometimes be fooled into attacking ourselves. Viruses and bacteria can sometimes jerk the immune system around in a way that causes our own body to attack itself well after the pathogen has been killed.

 

[hillwood]

I have chickens already that often free range. I don't see them helping too much. I have read that the guinea will go after rats and mice. If the ticks for lyme are too small, maybe that are just keeping the mice that carry ticks away. I have purchased my lifetime supply of permethrin and will also do tick tubes. Thanks for all the info.

The guineas will kill snakes also. The only bad thing about them is the noise they make.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Do a Google search for life expectancy over the past two centuries. Somebody must be doing something right.

Yes, and how many of those improvements were fought tooth and nail by the Establishment, until the truth of them was forced down their proud throats?

Most of them.

Go into just about any hospital in the country today with a low fever and see how fast they start trying to bring your fever down, including not giving you adequate blankets (harmful) or given you medicine to "relieve" your fever, even though the benefits of a fever were convincingly demonstrated over 150 years ago, and have been proven again and again in recent "modern" medical history.


You folks who want to can continue to worship at the altar of the AMA. Some of us will continue to think.

 

[IslandTractor]

Yes, and how many of those improvements were fought tooth and nail by the Establishment, until the truth of them was forced down their proud throats?

Most of them.

Go into just about any hospital in the country today with a low fever and see how fast they start trying to bring your fever down, including not giving you adequate blankets (harmful) or given you medicine to "relieve" your fever, even though the benefits of a fever were convincingly demonstrated over 150 years ago, and have been proven again and again in recent "modern" medical history.


You folks who want to can continue to worship at the altar of the AMA. Some of us will continue to think.

I'm sorry but your conspiratorial and half educated attitudes are just a tad off the deep end. Most medical advances are enthusiastically accepted, often times more so than beneficial as advances are rarely as cut and dried as the discoverers like to think. Low grade "fevers" under 38 are rarely responded to as the definition of fever begins at 38C. Fevers over 39C generally cause considerable discomfort so antipyresis is given to keep the fever down. Yes, fevers can be helpful in controlling viral illness (which is why only temps over 39 really need treatment) but you are talking about a very nonspecific and not terribly important benefit. Fever is an old nonspecific defense and our immune system has many more specific responses to invasion that are far more important. It's not like anyone dies of infection because a nurse gave them some tylenol.

I'm not a member of the AMA. I think they are full of crap and too much interested in the economic situation of physicians. That said, the AMA does publish some very good stuff too and they sometimes get it right like the stand on Ryan/Trump/Republicare. And, there is no "altar" of the AMA, even members of AMA disagree with them on many issues. The AMA has relatively little influence on pharma or academic medicine which is what drives most new therapies. Think of the AMA as a doctor's union but there is no requirement that physicians join. I don't know the numbers but a substantial percentage of practicing physicians and probably the majority of physicians in teaching hospitals don't belong.

Your own attitude is biased and perhaps you have a personal history that justifies hatred of the medical establishment but you should at least understand that the opinions you expouse here are pretty naive and fail to see both sides of the big picture. We've come a long way baby since the days of simple GPs operating solo and basing their therapies on tradition rather than science. We still have quite a ways to go but the situation is hardly as dreadful as you seem to think.