M4700 4wd

/ M4700 4wd #1  

Thomasre

Bronze Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2000
Messages
60
Location
North Carolina
Tractor
Kubota L3430 + BX2230
This is a great resource! I have been following this board for 8 months and looking for good used compact tractor for about 6+ months and I need some help or at least some opinions.I know that the Kubota M4700 is not a "compact", but I'm considering a used 97' M4700 4wd, ag tires & L1001 loader 8 forward speed / 4 reverse (not shuttle shift) with 180 hrs for use in light clearing, landscaping, and moving materials while building a house on 3 acres. Lot has gentle and some not so gentle slope. After home is built, I will likely sell tractor and go smaller - say L3010 size. I need help with sereral questions. Location is piedmont North Carlina. I'm considering making offer this week.1. What would be fair price offer on tractor & loader to individual, tractor has been available for 6 months +. Is $15,000 - $20,000 offer high / low? Tracter is not perfect but looks 90 - 95%. Is 97 model an issue? 2. How easy would this tractor be to resale - is market much smaller for larger midsize tractor? 3. Would M4700 be more stable of slope than compact, my feeling is that it would more stable due to wider stance and longer wheel base. Wheels are currently filled with liquid, not sure how much. Is there a way to determine optimal level. 4. What implements would I need to for preparing lot / lawn etc. A 48" Long tiller is available with purchase, would need boxscrape and forks. What else and would the tiller be of great value of should I leave out? 5. I would add pallet forks. Kubota forks cost? and take how long to swap with bucket? Other suggestions for bucket & forks? 6. Should I look at something else? Is this model good tractor?I know this is a lot to ask, but any help / opinion is appreciated.
 
/ M4700 4wd #2  
The tractor can be bought new 2000 model for around $23,000 with loader and 4WD. The tires are normally filled to 90% with antifreeze and water or calcium chloride. I would find out which it has. I have no idea what would be fair offer, but it should be in area of $20,000 (x90% might be a little lower).

Set the wheels as wide as you can to get the best stability - front and rear. Remember that the rear tires weigh about 800# each and don't lay them down or you will not get them back up.

48 inch tiller is pretty small for that tractor, but it may do what you want. A 6 ft would be nice and 5 ft will work ok. May leave tire prints on the tilled soil, though. The 48 inch will leave lots of tire prints and compacted soil.

I think it is a good tractor and I have the M6800SD which is just a little larger tractor. It is a very strong tractor and capable of doing a lot of work. If I were going to make a living landscaping, I would buy a compact. It all depends on what you want to do or plan to do. This is a utility tractor size and is capable of doing real work in 4WD and is in a very compact package. It will pull a 6 ft Bush Hog Mower and has enough weight to pick up a 1000# mower, which many compacts cannot.

Kubota makes a quick release for the bucket for about $250. The forks are really good but cost about $1000 or so. The clip on forks are useful and a lot cheaper, but have weight limits on the load. The LA1001 loader will pick up a 1/2 yard of dirt or gravel that weighs 2200# and the tractor is heavy enough to handle it.

If you want a smaller compact, why not just buy it now? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
/ M4700 4wd #3  
Thomas, when I was looking to buy a tractor at the end of last year I was wanting to buy a 4700 4wd. My decision was between a 4310 hst (because it is so easy to operate) and a 4700 because it was bigger, stronger, and more powerful. I chose the M series because I would be clearing a lot of land. It sounds like you will be clearing land, but it also sounds like you will be using it to help you build. Need to let us know how you intend to use your future tractor.

Wen has a great suggestion. Instead up buying one tractor, using it, going through the hassle of selling it, and then buying another tractor, why not just buy the tractor you want from the start and be done with it.

One of the ideas I had when I was buying was to buy a beat up 4x4 60 hp tractor at a good price, doing all the hard clearing work that need to be done, and then selling it, and buying a new tractor that I hadn't dogged out. After looking at prices of used tractors and realizing they weren't that great of a deal, I decided to just buy what I was going to use over the next several years. I have been happy with that decision.

One other thing to remember, you are buying a tractor not a tracked frontend loader or a bull dozer. When I first started working on my property I was trying to get my tractor to do jobs it just wasn't meant to do. I finally hired a grader who used a CAT 931 (tracked loader) with a 4-in-1 bucket. What he did in a week I couldn't have done in a year. He charged me $2,650 which has been the best money I've spent on our ranch thus far. He charged $55/hr.

So my suggestion is to buy the tractor you think you will use over the next few years, and to hire someone with a CAT to do the big work.

Now to your questions...finally.

1) When buying something used, offer low...a lot lower than you expect it to be. That is a good starting point. When I was trying to buy a tractor this past Fall, I found a 1998 4700 4wd, with a canopy, but without a loader, and with 16 hours on it for $17,900. I offered $16,000 and the dealer didn't budge. I offered $16,900 and told him that was as high as I'd go. He wouldn't come down in price at all. I walked and found a better deal about 2 weeks later. About a week after I'd bought my tractor the dealer with the 4700 called me and was willing to take $17,300. So I'd say the 4700 your are looking at should be less than $17,300 (It's a year older and has more hours). Call a dealer and find out what a new loader costs (I've forgotten) and take off 10% to 15%. Then take $2000 off your total and that gives you your beginning offer...and who knows, maybe the man says yes to the deal.

2) Tractor should be easy to resale but will take a little time. If you plan to resell make sure it is well maintained and very clean. Advertise it in the Equipment Trader magazine.

3) I think it would be more stable, but be really careful of any slope that's "not so gentle".

4) Wen is right, a 48" tiller is really too small, especially for a 4700. To rework my place I've been using a box scrape, all purpose plow, and front end loader with teeth.

5) I haven't bought forks yet for mine so I don't know the cost, but I did get a quick release, heavy duty bucket because I will get the forks after I build my barn. Does the 4700 you are looking at have a quick release bucket?

6) You may want to look at a 3710 hst. This may be more tractor than you need, but the cost new will be about what you will buy the 4700 for. After you are done building, how do you plan on using your tractor?
 
/ M4700 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Thanks! for information - very helpful! As a follow-up.
I have 3 acres wooded lot on Lake Tillery and must maintain a wooden "seawall". I try to keep washed gravel behind seawall so as muskrats tunnel - the tunnels tend to collapse.(Any suggestions on Muskrat demise?) Along with hauling stone, the tractor will be used for maintaining 600 ft driveway, general landscaping + lawn etc. and pulling logs / limbs out of lake cove as they to drift in. Otherwise, I have 25 wooded acres where I try to maintain a tractor road through and keep downed trees cleared etc.

I have been borrowing a JD4400 w/r4s, great tractor, but not as wide or heavy. I would definitely consider downsizing to Kubota L3010 after building or maybe not.

Regarding loader - the M4700 has the quick attach loader, but you mentioned a quick release for the bucket for about $250. Will this drop the bucket and allow attachment of forks easily? Made by Kubota for the L1001? Sounds like a $250 that would be well spent. I would prefer not to use the bucket attached forks due to length.
 
/ M4700 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#5  
Thanks! for information - very helpful! As a follow-up.
I have 3 acres wooded lot on Lake Tillery and must maintain a wooden "seawall". I try to keep washed gravel behind seawall so as muskrats tunnel - the tunnels tend to collapse.(Any suggestions on Muskrat demise?) Along with hauling stone, the tractor will be used for maintaining 600 ft driveway, general landscaping + lawn etc. and pulling logs / limbs out of lake cove as they to drift in. Otherwise, I have 25 wooded acres where I try to maintain a tractor road through and keep downed trees cleared etc.

I have been borrowing a JD4400 w/r4s, great tractor, but not as wide or heavy. I would definitely consider downsizing to Kubota L3010 after building or maybe not.

Regarding loader - the M4700 has the quick attach loader, but you and wen mentioned a quick release for the bucket for about $250. Will this drop the bucket and allow attachment of forks easily? Made by Kubota for the L1001? Sounds like a $250 that would be well spent. I would prefer not to use the bucket attached forks due to length.

Will consider 4310 hst, will try driving one today but price may be $23000+ vs. max $18,000 for M4700, making 4310 hard to justify vs. used M4700.
 
/ M4700 4wd #6  
The LA1001 loader can easily have a Kubota bucket quick release kit installed that is about $250 and contains a set of brackets for the bucket and a set for the loader. After installed, pull two pins, lower the loader and back away. Takes about 2 minutes to remove the bucket and put on a set of forks or a hay spear. Nice attachment.

Also works to take off the bucket and then you can see your lights easily while mowing. Saves adding an extra set up high. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
/ M4700 4wd #7  
Just remember, the M series are best suited as ag tractors. I mean they'll drag trees, grade, etc, all day long, lord knows I do enough of that. The amount of propery I have is what made me decide that a M series was for me. My brother has 18 acres, covered mostly with pasture and 3 to 8 year old pines. Most of the pines are easily knocked down. He didn't need an M series. He wanted something he could easily move around in. So he bought the 3710 hst with loader and Bushhog. I think he would have been miserable on a M series. There are many times I wish I had gotten a 4310 hst. Mostly when doing loader or grading work.

With 3 acres the 4700 is a lot of tractor.

Wen is right on with the quick release bucket.
 
/ M4700 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Again, this board is very helpful,, what was driving me to the 4700 was stability and my perception of $value. I offered $17k for tractor & loader after being told by local dealer that the wholesale was $15800 for 97' with loader/4wd/180hr and was rather rudely rejected by individual. Was this way out of line?

I'm sure your absolutely correct about the 3710, since I will be doing close maneuvering. My preference is and has been the 3710 HST with quick-release loader, forks, R4 tires set as wide as possible and box scrape. But it seems that everyone wants this tractor and I don't want to spend more than $20K - What do I give up HP, HST, or Orange ... or Help!
 
/ M4700 4wd #9  
I would be surprised if the M is more stable than the L. Isn't the L lower to the ground? I know the M is heavier, but if the weight is farther off the ground, it's not necessarily going to help.

So how much have you been quoted for the L3710 HST? If that's the right size for you, you're not very likely to be happy with the M, in my opinion.

Mark
 
/ M4700 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#10  
I honestly don't know, I'm willing to consider 3710 - 4610 or 4700 - 4900. Given same setup, R1 to R1 or R4 to R4 can someone give an educated guess regarding stability? I believe the L series sits at 15" with R1 and I think the 4700 is similar - not sure. However the distance to outside of tires is about 74" on 4700 / 4900 and about 62.4" on 4610. Additionally the wheelbase is longer on 4700 / 4900. Ideas or input ?
 
/ M4700 4wd #11  
Tom, spent part of yesterday helping my brother at his place. We were clearing part of a pasture that had over grown. His hst is so much easier and quicker when you are in a tight area. We were doing a lot of backing in to the brush and chopping all the crap up with the 5' Bush Hog. Not a problem at all.

The land is on a gental slope and the tractor didn't feel loose at all. But then on similar ground mine wouldn't either.

As to the 3710, I know it is a lot of money. My brother started off wanting a 3010, then decided for a little more he could get the 3410. Once he had decided on that, then he thought for a little more money he could get a 3710. Now he wishes, and this is his only regret, that he had gotten a 4310 hst. But on the other had, once he has all his land cleared and is mainly maintaining his property the 3710 will be plenty big enough.

Again, I think a man should buy whatever he damn well wants, period. But I think, and this is only an opinion and we all know what that's worth, the L series hst is better suited to your needs. You can hire a tracked loader to come in and he can clear your land in a day. Then with your L series you'll be able to grade it how you want it.

One other thought, on your more extreme slopes you don't want a tractor on it no matter which you buy. The second you even get sort of close to the tractor being tipsy you've made a big mistake. It will only take doing that once, scaring the hell out of yourself, and you won't do it again.

I live on a ridge top, my house is at the peak. When I am mowing I only go up and down, not sideways. And along that note, make sure any tractor you get has a ROPS and always wear a seatbelt.

Tom, how will you be using a tractor? What jobs will it be doing? Will you use it to build your house? etc.

Last thing, when negociating for a tractor, don't get too ruffled when you make an offer and the seller looks at you like you are crazy. If your offer is too low just ask, "How 'too low' is it?". When he tells you then you can look at him like he's crazy. I make about 20 offers per week to buy a house. Most of my offers are 40 to 50 cents on the dollar of the asking price. Most sellers look at me like I'm crazy. I know my offer is too low, but with any offer I make the seller is going to think it is too low. I'm convinced that I could offer the seller $10,000 more than their asking price and their first thought wouldn't be "Yipee, I've sold my house!", rather it would be, "Uh-oh, he knows something we don't, we're not asking enough for our house, we might want to up our asking price.". So make the offer and let the sell be shocked.
 
/ M4700 4wd #12  
Mark - He can get the M4900 with the 24 inch low profile tires and definately be more stable. What you lose (everything is a tradeoff) is some traction. Since I wanted all the traction I could get, I did not take the low profile option. All of the Orchard tractors are low profile. The reason is they are build for California where the only level ground is under the ocean, and not many places there. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
The local city bought a 2WD M6800 with Low Profile Tires for mowing on freeway slopes, but the 4WD would have been much more suitable. It looked kinda funny because it had the original front tires. Normally they also use the low profile tires on the rear for the 4WD Kubotas.

Places where my MF245 Massey felt unstable the M6800 doesn't even miss a beat. The large 4WD front tires just go right across the ditches and washes and keep right on going. The tires when ballasted on some of these vehicles weigh more than some small tractors. Still believe Kubota's 4WD vehicles properly weighed and ballasted are second only to a tracked vehicle in stability.
 
/ M4700 4wd #13  
Wen, more stable than what? Than an M without low profile tires, or than an L with R4's?

Mark
 
/ M4700 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Mark and Wen,

Hey guys thanks again and I hate to keep asking but - help me here - 24" (low profile tires?) What would be the tire size of these low profile on 4700? What type tred? R4 or are they the super turf tires. I would think the 4900 with low profile tires would have to be more stable than 3710 with R4 tires? Suggestions on who might be able to answer question? What is the lowest profile tire for each tractor with at least r4 type tred? I will definitely fill either tractors tires.

Again can't thank you enough. If the 3710 would be as stable, I sure would like to have that confirmed. Otherwise, I would sure consider the 4700.
 
/ M4700 4wd #15  
Low Profile Tires: On my M6800, the low profile tires are changed from 16.9-30 to 16.9-24. Tires are same width just a little over 2 inches less in rolling radius. If you run through the calculations, you will see that setting the tires out 4 inches total center to center accomplishes the same degree of stability.

On the M Series the centerline of the rear wheels can be adjusted from 52 in to 67.7
On the L Series the centerline of the rear wheels can be adjusted from 46.5 to 60.8 (L4310)

The L Series will never be able to be adjusted as stable as the M Series due to the narrower track of the L Series. It is the angle where the cg of the tractor passes through the line of the tire touching the ground on the downhill side that causes the restoring moment to be negative and over she goes. Both series are helped significantly by adding ballast to the tires as either wheel weights or better yet as liquid ballast in the tires. 50% fill (as Mark has) is even more effective than the more common 90% fill (the tires are filled to the filler valve when it is at the top of the tire rotation (12:00 position).

The front tires are also changed in rim size to maintain the correct rolling ratio between the front and rear tires.

The dealer offered me the low profile tires as a negative cost option on the M6800SD. I did not take it because the traction is less on the same size (width) tire on a 24 inch vs a 30 inch rim and I need all the traction I can get at times. I did have him set them out 4 inches to get the same stability.
 
/ M4700 4wd #16  
Forgot the rest of your question was about the tread. I have only used the R1 tires. The Firestone Road and Field tires have an overlap in the bars and ride smoothly on either soft or hard surface.

The R4 tires are industrial tires and are good for construction sites with lots of nails. They would be of no use to me.

Also have no use for the Turf tires. They get full of mud and are pretty useless then. They are a speciality tire suitable for large lawns and are used by sod farms and golf courses and of course by those that bought a tractor primarily to mow with.
 
/ M4700 4wd
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Again - Thanks,

I knew the centerline of the tires could be moved out, but I didn't realize how much, Now I just have to get everything lined up to buy - will let you know decision.

The Firestone Road and Field tires sound good if I buy new.
 
/ M4700 4wd #18  
Check out the posts on the Michelin XM27 tires, if you haven't already. They're the best of both worlds: the traction of R1's and the durability of R4's. Plus, they're radials and as such will outwork any bias tire hands down, not to mention ride, efficiency, and traction advantages.

Did I miss it, or did this discussion not address the height of the M-series? If it's higher than the L-series (I say 'if' because I don't know) the increased center of gravity will negate track width. Another thing to keep in mind is that with increased track width, you have to increase the width of most of your rear implements - which adds to expense. Plus it gets a lot less maneuverable, if you're going to be using it in the woods. I think you're trading "all for naught" if you're doing all for increased stability - the difference is going to be negligible. Now if you need the increased horse power, that's a different story altogether.

Mark
 
/ M4700 4wd #19  
Mark, I keep my tractor in a barn all times not being used. Will the tires still crack over time. I never wear tires out, but previous ones that spent a lot of times outdoors become nearly unusable from cracks in the tire. I think the radials are better, but Kubota doesn't think enough of them to offer them on any tractors that I have checked.

Look at the M4700 and the L4310 in their crates, and there is not much difference in size. The primary difference in size comes from the wheels and tires. I always thought the M5700 and M6800 were wider, but it turns out that the only difference is the tires are wider.
 
/ M4700 4wd #20  
The 4700 is taller, wider, and longer than the 4310. When my brother and I have our two tractors next to each other the difference in size is amazing. His 3710 is about the size of a 4310, and my 5400 is about the size of a 4700.

Mark hit the nail on the head as to why there's such a difference in size. I use a 1001 loader with a tooth bar, he has the 681(?) loader. I have a 6 ft heavy duty brush cutter and his is a 5 footer.

When in a tight area the M series can be a hand full, especially with all the gear changing.

Another thing to think about that Mark keyed on was that the impliments will be bigger and more expensive with the M series.

You might want to see if a rental company close to your has a hydro Kubota. Rent it for the day and see how it works.

Wen, the traction Mark gets with his tires is simply incredible! I heard he had 30 o locking rings on each tire (he modified of course!). He is able to take the rubber heads off of toilet plungers and connect them to the rubber o rings (hydrolically of course). Then when he is doing some serious landscaping on the roof of one of thoes big tall buildings Mark is able to simply drive up the side of the building!
 

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