MADE IN CHINA on JD

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   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #51  
widmn said:
Frankly, I think its embarrassing and a disgrace to our culture, our gubmint, and the US. We have lost our manufacturing and much of our service sectors to China and India.
My 7 year old daughter asked me the other day why everything was Made in China. I couldn't/didn't want to answer her and I fear for her future. I have lost faith in our corrupt gubmint. I can't even use the word goverment anymore. They don't deserve it.
I do agree. If John Deere now makes their compact tractors and accessories in China, they can keep their tractors. JD and other former USA but now "global" company's are funding China's economy and its military so they can make a short term profit at our USAs long term expense, and they no longer have any allegiance to the USA. Their only allegiance is primarily to the CEOs huge bonuses.

Just my two cents.
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #52  
swines said:
I love the comments..

People get all over JD for being "too expensive." They outsource parts to keep costs in line and get criticized for it. You're the same people who gloat over your "great deal" that you got at Harbor Freight on a Chinese made quick hitch that's "exactly the same" as the JD Imatch. When you do that, don't look to closely in the mirror because you're part of the problem.

As for quality; manufacturing going overseas; the "gubmint"; blah, blah...whine, whine...

Heard it all before only it had "Made in Japan" labels in the late '50's. That seemed to work out okay...now everyone points to Japan as the paradigm of quality manufacturing. Give the Chinese about 10 more years and association with Japanese and American manufacturing requirements and they'll be just as good overall.

Cisco Systems is making routers in China....Sony, Panasonic, etc. are making all kinds of electronics in China. All it takes is a good, local QC department, and manufacturing engineers to help setup the facility...after that, workers are workers and can turn out any level of quality desired.

Unless, of course you subscribe to the conspiracy theories about the Chineses having plans in place to take over the world...with all kinds of sinister motives. You'll probably also be vacationing in Dulce, NM looking for the 9-story underground base where the lizard people and the "greys" battle it out daily...for control of the tunnel that goes to Area 51....


China will NEVER be what Japan is or was, not in a million years pal.

CHINA is a communist nation, and they make junk, (always will)

Japan is a free country whose workers want to be the best of the best & they are proud of it, just look at their cars.

Chinese workers work under the gun, heck they dont even heat treat their tools !

Shame on the deere
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #53  
Don't believe it.

I was there personally in December. I saw modern factories and cottage industry. I saw the old china manufactuing plants and state of the art tractor assembly facilities that were truley world class.

China may have a single party political system, but we may need to change the definition of "communist". They have an emerging middle class. there is private ownership of business. people are buying new BMWs (believe it or not). Workers are going on strike for better conditions/wages. I saw both wealt and poverty while there.

US manufacturing concerns have known about the world economy for several decades. for whatever reason (union, government, ecological, you name it) they could not make the necessary adjustments to keep these manufacturing jobs at home. yet our economy remains viable (information based economy?).

I remember when Japan was cheap, then taiwan and korea. eventually these things will even out. But at what level? The burning question is, can the world economy support the world population with everyone earning a living wage? There will always be poor, those that dont (can't don't) produce.

Oh, the tools they USE seem to be decent, its just the cheap stuff someone thought would sell here that is junk.

Deere has had a plant in China for many years, just bought a second (benye former maker of the RHino brand of tractors sold here). CNH bought the Shanghai plant several years ago, Mahindra bought Jaingling (original factory that produced Lenar formally FengShou). and it is reported they are looking hard at a another acquisition. Just another day in the world economy...
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #54  
bluechip said:
I remember when Japan was cheap, then taiwan and korea. eventually these things will even out. But at what level? The burning question is, can the world economy support the world population with everyone earning a living wage? There will always be poor, those that dont (can't don't) produce.
I think the issue is a little different with China. I don't think it's just a matter of coming up to speed with worker training, quality materials, proper design and engineering, better machinery, etc. With all the technology and assistance coming in from the 1st world, I think those traditional quality-related issues are all falling nicely into place.

On the other hand, I think there is an ugly, uncontrolled corruption problem within China... a widespread, cultural "willingness to cheat" the laws, standards and specs on so many levels that never seemed to be there with the other countries you mentioned that largely seem to have played by the book. The continuing and growing revelations regarding Chinese-made consumer products are very troubling. I went through this in my former career with certain industrial components. Folks had to get killed first before we woke up and stopped using inferior Chinese product. Things may change over time, but my sense is that change will come slowly and that there's still a very rocky road ahead.

Dougster
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #55  
tractorErnie said:
China will NEVER be what Japan is or was, not in a million years pal.

CHINA is a communist nation, and they make junk, (always will)

Japan is a free country whose workers want to be the best of the best & they are proud of it, just look at their cars.

Chinese workers work under the gun, heck they dont even heat treat their tools !

Shame on the deere


No offense allot of what you are writing is hog wash. Allot of people here seem to have some wild ideas about the China work force. How many of you have gone over to China to witness these so called slave labor forces you speak about? Allot of people here are assuming things. Let me guess USA has no slave labor going on ? It's all gravy for the workers in factories of America? Factory work is factory work regardless of country. Some factories have clean work some have harder. That does not change due to borders. I have seen many crappy jobs being done in Canada, so guys don't kid yourself, your chit stinks also.

The north Americans like to spew propaganda over the China work force, it is basically a cheap attempt to explain why china goods are cheaper compared to the USA made goods. When the reality is other factors come in to play why it's cheaper.

In regards to high quality can't be produced in China? You have got to be kidding. I will share a little story for anyone that cares. Last year when I bought my new house I wanted a full on games room, a pool table, bar and poker table. After visiting countless stores I learned that good old American Brunswick was the way to go. They had the best quality but they also have the most expensive pricing. Go figure. Anyway I went ahead and spent the loot ( 20 grand for the pool table, bar and poker table and chairs) The cost was hard for me to accept but when I looked at the quality it was so nice. I justified buying it by the old saying “You get what you paid for” Anyway when the products arrived, guess what the country of origin was? Hmmm yup MADE IN CHINA. Brunswick a 160 year old American brand sending the high end line to be made in China?? Well as the workers took everything out of the box I watched them like a hawk. I told the store owner if I caught any little scratches or blems I would return the product. For the money I spent I expected flawless. He agreed and had no problems with that. Well anyway after watching the guys like a hawk and checking out every square inch of the wood and pieces for the set, I can tell you it was flawless the end result was 110 percent. I was amazed at such high detail wood work and finish could be so perfect. And all MADE IN CHINA.

This brings me back to you get what you pay for, if you pay the China companies more money to produce high end products you get high end. You guys are making it sound like John Deere has passed the torch onto China to design and spec and build the John Deere stuff. It is not like that the China manufacturing companies have to produce the products to JOHN DEERE SPEC, that means it still comes to you the consumer the way John Deere expects it.

I understand people are patriotic to their counties and defend that to the death, but to complain about China manufacturing is silly imo, since we can’t make what they make. Why be upset about that?

In closing the above it not said to upset anyone. Hopefully none is taken the wrong way.

Cheers.
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #56  
dieselalles said:
Just some points to ponder related to this subject...

.....
I remember a few years ago how Hewlett-Packard was chastised because they moved their server and workstation manufacturing over to Malaysia. They kept their HQ in the US but their manufacturing was moved overseas. Yeah, they wanted to make more money, but it also allowed them to reduce prices to meet consumer demand. Taxes and labor costs were killing their margins in the US forcing them to move overseas like all other computer makers.

.......

Interesting comment. HP has now past IBM in revenues, DELL in PC's and Servers, designs over 50 percent of the top performing super computers, absorbed Compaq, and is still shopping around.

And they still design and manufacture here in the US. They are truely worldwide.

So, it goes to show that with the right leaders and strategy you can capture and grow markets.


JD is no different in its relationships with foreign markets. Neither is anyone else.

-Mike Z.
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #57  
Interesting thread. Participated as a rabble-rouser at the beginning...I'll be more serious now. Since I was part of a team that relocated a TV picture tube factory to China in the late 80s, I have a few insights others might find interesting.

Many of the above points are valid and bear on the issue. From my 20 some years in manufacturing engineering and year and a half in China, the following points should be considered:

1. Unions - High wage scales and benefits are part of the problem, but not the deal breaker. Work rule inflexibility, combined with the high expense IS. A company has to be agile if they are to remain competitive these days. Customer requirements can change overnight. If the union workforce will not willingly work with management to meet these changing requirements and if every change results in extensive HR-Union negotiations (where typically HR gives away the farm); then the workforce is of very little value to management or the company.

2. The Chinese are willing workers and they are very intelligent. With proper motivation, training and tools; they can turn out quality products as well as anyone. Like us, they have goals, families and dreams and a steady income is needed to support these things. Unlike many U.S. workers, most that I met were not too proud to do menial and/or heavy labor or work long hours over long periods while in the process of bettering themselves or their families. The important thing to them was the steady income, be it little or much. The slackers got weeded out quickly by the Party people in management.

3. Management in Chinese factories, at the time I was in-country, was heavily dominated by Party favorites. The people who knew manufacturing (mostly Party people themselves) took orders from the Party favorites. Quality and productivity were pretty uneven as a result. The poor initial performance resulted in a shift away from the favorites and toward the manufacturing professionals. The result has been the closest thing to an actual Great Leap Forward that China's ever enjoyed. There are still problems, but the cost & quality soon become more than adequate in any area where they concentrate their efforts.

4. Environmental issues get short shrift in China. There was little or no control over waste dumping, water pollution or air pollution while I was there. The stuff went where there was room to put it, period. Trash dumps seemed to sprout everywhere. Anyone who's been involved with even a small expansion of a factory in the U.S. knows the tortuous path that must be followed with state, local and federal environmental agencies, many of which cannot agree with themselves on the proper way to do things. This adds great expense to any manufacturing undertaking in this country....not so much meeting the env. requirements themselves, but the delay and loss of opportunity while trying to settle on an approach that meets all requirements and satisfies everyone. From a competitive standpoint, this places U.S. based manufacturing at a huge disadvantage.

5. Once gone, they're gone - Manufacturing facilities, once closed here, will never be back. The rules and regulations that govern every aspect of manufacturing in the U.S. these days are so many, onerous and costly, that few in their right mind (and none who answer to a board of directors) would consider it without a lot of special incentives. (I know, you're thinking, "Never say never, Bob.". Well I'd be overjoyed to be proved wrong on this point.)

FWIW, I was in charge of setting up, modifying and debugging the factory's computer based automatic test and data collection systems in China. Sort of the high-tech goto guy on the team. I trained many Chinese and almost without exception, they were bright and motivated, of good character and good team workers. We got along well and got the job done in spite of language difficulties. Not all were happy with their leadership, but nearly all were determined to make a go of the opportunities they were offered.
Bob
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #58  
China is taking a "rap" these day over product safety. Just look at the pet food and now Mattel. Mattel has just recalled 1.5 million toys made in China due to them being painted with lead paint. Apparently that is going to wipe out 1/2 of Mattel's profit. Would have been cheaper to make them in the US.

Andy
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #59  
AndyMA said:
China is taking a "rap" these day over product safety. Just look at the pet food and now Mattel. Mattel has just recalled 1.5 million toys made in China due to them being painted with lead paint. Apparently that is going to wipe out 1/2 of Mattel's profit. Would have been cheaper to make them in the US.

Andy

Yes this only happens in China right? Do you forget the BF Goodrich Truck tires blowing up at highway speeds? Millions of tires recalled causing tons of deaths which lead to trucks coming with tire sensors nowadays.

In regards to the pet food, that is pretty interesting your take on things. As a dog owner that was part of that scare, the major problem was the pressure the Americans put on the pet food manufacture plants. The Americans kept demanding and insisting on Higher protein levels in the food. Since America is by far the biggest consuming market in the world for pet food what could the asians do? They did what was asked of them and produced pet food with higher levels of Protein. They had to add melomeny and chlorine ?? to up the levels to satisfy the big american brands. Visit Royal Canine for more information. The above probally explains why the USA pet Food brands kept or did their best to keep this on the down low.

Once again not trying to stir anything it's just odd how we are the root of the problem but keep trying to deflect the blame on others.

Bob_Young you made some excellent points. It was even better since you had first had experience in dealing with overseas. I have to agree the Asian people are good folks that work very hard and take pride. You can't keep outputting such high quality and numbers if everyone is lazy and being slave driven like many like to think.

At the end of the day, us north americans could always sink china and ruin them only to have a major world wide crisis of over 1 billion starving and dieing. Then we could always give out free money to help them with food and what not since that is the North American thing to do. Since we are the best place in the world to live we are the first to help out poor nations with free money, or we could do what we are and become good trading partners and let these countries actually work for their monies instead of free hand outs.

Take your pick. I chose to be trading partners and better both parties.
 
   / MADE IN CHINA on JD #60  
I'm finding it a little amazing... and a bit troubling... that so many folks here on TBN are willing to act as supporters, rationalizers and apologists for the latest spat of Chinese poisons and other blatantly, criminally defective products hitting our shores. Why the free ride??? Where is this sentiment coming from??? :confused: A need to keep priced down at the local Walmart? :rolleyes:

Lord knows I don't have all the answers about how to turn this pathetic situation around... other than to buy American every last chance we get. Those chances are clearly dwindling fast... but there are still a few opportunities out there if you look hard enough. :eek:

Dougster
 
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