Mahindra 3510 FEL question

[Secret Squirrel]

Has anyone ever taken any steps to increase the lifting power of the FEL on a Mahindra 3510? If so, what did you do and what did it cost? I've been trying to use it to move pallets lately and I simply need more lifting power to get the job done. Thanks.

Rusty

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

what's on the pallets, and are you using a real set of forks or clamp on's?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

what's on the pallets, and are you using a real set of forks or clamp on's?

What's on the pallets shouldn't matter. Whether it be a ton of feathers or a ton of lead - it shouldn't make any difference. But mostly we are talking miscellaneous building supplies, palletized and stretch wrapped. It's just a pain having to unwrap and remove stuff piece by piece, bag by bag until I can pick-up the pallet. Forks are standard 48" skidsteer type.

I'd just like to know the limiting factor on the 3510's loader lifting capability. Is it the tractor (tires, frame, front axle?) or the loader? And if it is the loader, can I safely increase lifting capability with different cylinders or other mods? I just ran out of factory warranty so I am ready to start tinkering. My rear tires are loaded and I use a hefty ballast box, so no fears about stability. I'd even get the front tires foamed if that would help.

Rusty

 

[rback33]

My only question is whether it's a gear or an HST?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

My only question is whether it's a gear or an HST?

It's a 2005 gear model. 4WD. Loader is model "ML112"

Rusty

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

What's on the pallets shouldn't matter. Whether it be a ton of feathers or a ton of lead - it shouldn't make any difference. But mostly we are talking miscellaneous building supplies, palletized and stretch wrapped. It's just a pain having to unwrap and remove stuff piece by piece, bag by bag until I can pick-up the pallet. Forks are standard 48" skidsteer type.

Rusty

the reason I asked about what's on the pallets is because a pallet of granite, bricks, or concrete blocks can easily weigh 3000 pounds, while a pallet of dried firewood might only weigh 1000.
If you're having trouble picking up something only weighing 1000 pounds, there is a problem, but 3k is well outside the loader spec for the ML112.
Now that Rback33 is here, I'll just sit back and listen - because he really is the expert on this particular model.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

the reason I asked about what's on the pallets is because a pallet of granite, bricks, or concrete blocks can easily weigh 3000 pounds, while a pallet of dried firewood might only weigh 1000.
If you're having trouble picking up something only weighing 1000 pounds, there is a problem, but 3k is well outside the loader spec for the ML112.
Now that Rback33 is here, I'll just sit back and listen - because he really is the expert on this particular model.

These pallets that come in are all different weights. Some I can lift and some I can't. The loader is probably meeting spec or coming real close. It isn't broken. I know there is a big difference in pivot pin rating vs what you can pickup with these 48" pallet forks. I'm really just looking to find out if replacing the lift cylinders with the next size up (2.25" vs 2") makes sense or if I'm going to end up breaking something.

Rusty

 

[Westendorf-RR]

I don't know if this will be of any help, but we rated and recommended the Mahrinda 3510 with a TA-170 loader with a 1450lb lift capacity (full height front edge of bucket). We have an optional (TA-175) with upgraded lift cylinders to get 2250 lbs, however it is not recommended for this tractor. You may be at your tractors max capacity for a loader.

Mahindra Attachments & Farm Equipment – front end loaders, backhoes, mowers & more

Here are Mahrinda's specs on your loader, however they only list capacity back at the pivot pins (1972#). If you move 48" out (pallet size) towards front edge of your bucket you will get considerably less lift power.

If there is any way you can move the load back closer to the loader it will help. For example if you are using the clamp on stye forklift teeth (clamps over front edge of bucket), you'd be better off getting rid of the bucket.

Here is an example: If I move the measurement point of a loader from the pivot to the front edge of bucket this is what happens to the lift capacity.

PIVOT PIN: 4100# lift capacity at 10' high
FRONT EDGE: 2400# lift capacity at 10' high 800 mm out from Pivot Pin

Hopefully this helps.

Ever consider a 3-point forklift? They have much more lift capacity (3500#). The only bad thing is you have to go backwards, but that is a lot easier than unloading the pallet by hand .

Thrifty-Lift

 

[rback33]

Rusty,
Thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure from your posts that you were pushing the max capacity of the loader, but could not decided if you felt you were getting everything you should out of it. If I have understood all this you feel like the loader IS performing to spec, you just wish you had a little more umph. I have no first hand knowledge of anyone going to bigger cylinders on this particular model. If spec'd preperly, I doubt there is much risk by going a little bigger. My only concern is the front axle. There have been issues in the past where people have chewed up front axles with heavy loader work. Skipmarcy is an expert at changing those out. I might have a cylinder print that would give you the retracted length, stroke, etc for you to see about getting some custom built.

Oh.. and don't ask Erik... Yours is still under warranty...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Rusty,
Thanks for the clarification. I was pretty sure from your posts that you were pushing the max capacity of the loader, but could not decided if you felt you were getting everything you should out of it. If I have understood all this you feel like the loader IS performing to spec, you just wish you had a little more umph. I have no first hand knowledge of anyone going to bigger cylinders on this particular model. If spec'd preperly, I doubt there is much risk by going a little bigger. My only concern is the front axle. There have been issues in the past where people have chewed up front axles with heavy loader work. Skipmarcy is an expert at changing those out. I might have a cylinder print that would give you the retracted length, stroke, etc for you to see about getting some custom built.

Oh.. and don't ask Erik... Your's is still under warranty...

Your understanding is correct. I am not the greatest mathematician in the world, but all indications are that the loader is meeting spec. I'm just looking to see if we can squeeze a little more lifting capacity out of it for use with these 48" pallet forks. I don't see us going to greater than 2.25" cylinders (from 2" stock). I believe that would give us about a 25% increase in capacity and that is all I would ever want to risk. I hope Skipmarcy will give us his opinion on this idea.

I don't think the cylinder drawing would help us much because it needs a completely different base end design once we exceed the 2" cylinder diameter. It will not fit inside the space for it in the boom. I doubt we would go custom made cylinders anyway. Too expensive and too long a lead time. We will try to find something off the shelf and adapt the ends to fit.

Rusty

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I don't know if this will be of any help, but we rated and recommended the Mahrinda 3510 with a TA-170 loader with a 1450lb lift capacity (full height front edge of bucket). We have an optional (TA-175) with upgraded lift cylinders to get 2250 lbs, however it is not recommended for this tractor. You may be at your tractors max capacity for a loader.

Mahindra Attachments & Farm Equipment – front end loaders, backhoes, mowers & more

Here are Mahrinda's specs on your loader, however they only list capacity back at the pivot pins (1972#). If you move 48" out (pallet size) towards front edge of your bucket you will get considerably less lift power.

If there is any way you can move the load back closer to the loader it will help. For example if you are using the clamp on stye forklift teeth (clamps over front edge of bucket), you'd be better off getting rid of the bucket.

Here is an example: If I move the measurement point of a loader from the pivot to the front edge of bucket this is what happens to the lift capacity.

PIVOT PIN: 4100# lift capacity at 10' high
FRONT EDGE: 2400# lift capacity at 10' high 800 mm out from Pivot Pin

Hopefully this helps.

Ever consider a 3-point forklift? They have much more lift capacity (3500#). The only bad thing is you have to go backwards, but that is a lot easier than unloading the pallet by hand .

Thrifty-Lift

Thanks for the info. We are using real 48" pallet forks and not clamp-ons.

This all seems to imply that we are already on the hairy edge of prudent operation. That 3-point forklift is interesting. If this cylinder upgrade doesn't help us, we'll have to take a closer look.

Rusty

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just my opinion here, but I know that on both my 3215 and 7520 when I pick up a maximum load, I can see the loader arms flexing. And although the flex is not much, I would imagine that with an increase of 25% lifting capacity, the loader frame would not hold up very long. With the extra load, you have now put a much bigger load on the whole tractor. Lots of other points on the tractor to possibly fail. Power steering, front axle, tires, just to name a few. Sounds to me like the lifting is a regular thing, maybe you need to think about a bigger machine. You can find a 4000lb forklift with pneumatic tires for about 3k these days.

Don't want to be a naysayer, and if it is only a one or two time type thing, then yes over load it, but you are looking to spend money and that is an indication to me that it is a regular thing. You need the right equipment to do the job properly, if not, then the equipment ends up failing at some point.

Again, just my opinion here.

 

[skipmarcy]

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the ML112 loader is almost too much for the 3510/4110 as is, I wouldn't try to get more capacity out of it as it will almost certainly cause tractor problems. I honestly think you would find a cylinder upgrade a total waste of money.

When I get a really full bucket of dirt or gravel in my 6' bucket and get on a relatively mild downslope it will actually lift my rear tires off the ground - have had to do an emergency dump real quick a few times. Now granted my boxblade is fairly lightweight and I could add weight to overcome the situation but watching the front tires squat and the whole loader assembly trying to flex the tractor in half tells me that I'm already at the tractor's limits anyway. If you'll look at my posts from 2004 when my tractor really did almost come in half before Mahindra sent me the extra braces you'll see what kind of trouble there is potential for. Not to mention eating front axles.

As far as forks go, what's been posted tells it like it is - it doesn't take much at all ahead of the bucket to cut your capacity. My homeade forks are adjustable and I have to keep them at their shortest length to get any use at all out of them. Mine extend only 18" from the lip of the bucket and will stop a lift very easily on an otherwise normal load. I can imagine 48" forks are almost useless. Like has been said already, a 3 point fork would be much better for pallet work. I've moved 54' mobile homes on my hitch, approx. 5k tongue weight - way more than most any pallet you might come across. Good luck on whatever you decide to do - and don't hurt yourself !!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Just my opinion here, but I know that on both my 3215 and 7520 when I pick up a maximum load, I can see the loader arms flexing. And although the flex is not much, I would imagine that with an increase of 25% lifting capacity, the loader frame would not hold up very long. With the extra load, you have now put a much bigger load on the whole tractor. Lots of other points on the tractor to possibly fail. Power steering, front axle, tires, just to name a few. Sounds to me like the lifting is a regular thing, maybe you need to think about a bigger machine. You can find a 4000lb forklift with pneumatic tires for about 3k these days.

Don't want to be a naysayer, and if it is only a one or two time type thing, then yes over load it, but you are looking to spend money and that is an indication to me that it is a regular thing. You need the right equipment to do the job properly, if not, then the equipment ends up failing at some point.

Again, just my opinion here.

Thanks for your opinion, but a conventional fork lift truck wouldn't help us much where we are currently working. The better solution, if new cylinders are a bad idea, is to keep splitting the delivered loads onto multiple pallets. It takes some extra time and can be a real nuisance, but the area is not well suited to anything smaller than tractor or skidsteer tires.

Rusty

 

[Secret Squirrel]

For what it's worth, my opinion is that the ML112 loader is almost too much for the 3510/4110 as is, I wouldn't try to get more capacity out of it as it will almost certainly cause tractor problems. I honestly think you would find a cylinder upgrade a total waste of money.

When I get a really full bucket of dirt or gravel in my 6' bucket and get on a relatively mild downslope it will actually lift my rear tires off the ground - have had to do an emergency dump real quick a few times. Now granted my boxblade is fairly lightweight and I could add weight to overcome the situation but watching the front tires squat and the whole loader assembly trying to flex the tractor in half tells me that I'm already at the tractor's limits anyway. If you'll look at my posts from 2004 when my tractor really did almost come in half before Mahindra sent me the extra braces you'll see what kind of trouble there is potential for. Not to mention eating front axles.

As far as forks go, what's been posted tells it like it is - it doesn't take much at all ahead of the bucket to cut your capacity. My homeade forks are adjustable and I have to keep them at their shortest length to get any use at all out of them. Mine extend only 18" from the lip of the bucket and will stop a lift very easily on an otherwise normal load. I can imagine 48" forks are almost useless. Like has been said already, a 3 point fork would be much better for pallet work. I've moved 54' mobile homes on my hitch, approx. 5k tongue weight - way more than most any pallet you might come across. Good luck on whatever you decide to do - and don't hurt yourself !!

Thanks for your help. Can't say that I am not disappointed (I am), but better safe than sorry. I didn't realize I had so little margin available. I too have floated the rear tires and that's why they are now loaded and why I use such a large ballast box. I've never had a problem since.

I'll search for your old posts on the subject and educate myself.

Rusty

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks for your opinion, but a conventional fork lift truck wouldn't help us much where we are currently working. The better solution, if new cylinders are a bad idea, is to keep splitting the delivered loads onto multiple pallets. It takes some extra time and can be a real nuisance, but the area is not well suited to anything smaller than tractor or skidsteer tires.

Rusty

So I'm guessing that you don't have off road forklifts in your area. 44" tires are not all that small in my book. These now older machines were pulled behind semi truck and trailers in my area, usually for unloading concrete block. Usually had a 4-6k lift capacity.

Just trying to help

 

[Tim_in_IA]

I've seen forklifts for the 3 point around here. they can go way up there too. You still have to take the tractor size into account though. I think the units I've seen used on craigslist in my area have been under 2k.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

So I'm guessing that you don't have off road forklifts in your area. 44" tires are not all that small in my book. These now older machines were pulled behind semi truck and trailers in my area, usually for unloading concrete block. Usually had a 4-6k lift capacity.

Just trying to help

Sorry, I wasn't thinking of the off road type. Don't see many of them around anymore. They've mostly been supplanted by those telescopic forklifts.

Regardless, I don't think we want to go that far at this time. The new cylinders could have been had for less that $500 total including end mods. Much above that - maybe $1000 tops - and we aren't interested. We'll just live with the nuisance factor.

Rusty