Mahindra 3616 pto not working

[BillC72]

My 3616 pto has stopped working. One day was fine....next time I go to use it...just barley rotates. With the tractor off, turns freely disengaged, and when engaged I can feel the gears turning. Also affects the mid pto. The 3616 HST is a mechanical pto with no solenoid to be the culprit. Any ideas on where to start, or any common failures? I'm thinking of pulling the top off to check the driveline first.

 

[BrokeSolid]

I was just now logging in to post about my issue on my 2007 2615 HST (400 hrs) and the top post is this one. Different tractors but both mitsu so probably the same or similar issue, so I’ll jump on unless it’s turns out mine is different.

Yesterday while using my post pounder, my pto would not engage every time and would kick out occasionally while using if I got it engaged. I had to try multiple times to get it to engage, noticed the mid pto is the same, so was wondering if this is the engagement shaft that both levers connect to or if this is a bigger problem. I have 200 posts to set and not wanting to pull out my clumsy 706.

 

[Sergei1]

If I've read correctly my tractor has a clutch to engage the PTO, Have you checked your fluid level, also when was the filters, HST and hydraulic last chanced.
Also how many hours since last fluid change.

 

[Sergei1]

My 3616 pto has stopped working. One day was fine....next time I go to use it...just barley rotates. With the tractor off, turns freely disengaged, and when engaged I can feel the gears turning. Also affects the mid pto. The 3616 HST is a mechanical pto with no solenoid to be the culprit. Any ideas on where to start, or any common failures? I'm thinking of pulling the top off to check the driveline first.

You do connect mechanical to the PTO with the lever, but all the power to drive it comes through the HST. I've heard them referred as transmission PTO.
In my service manual in the section on the transmission, not the HST unit, they cover the PTO and last page cover replacing the Hydraulic filter ever 200 hrs.
Does everything work correctly, FEL, steering, 3 point and drive correctly. Trying to see if maybe you've lost a hydraulic pump.

 

[sspenst]

I had a 3016 Shuttle Shift(2014) but it had a electric solenoid button and a mechanical lever to engage the PTO. not sure how the HST on yours works, my 2638 HST is setup sorta like my old 3016. i do have the service manual for the 3016-3616 in PDF if you want it

 

[BillC72]

You actually sent me the service manual. Thanks for that. Everything else works fine in the hydraulic system. I've been reviewing the manual for some time now and I guess the only way to really diagnose it is to go in from the top. It looks like the pto drive shaft is coupled at each casting from front to back and I'm hoping I have broken a coupler. I was just hoping someone else has experienced this issue before me. None of my local Mahindra buddies have had pto problems.

 

[Sergei1]

My 2815 should be the same tractor as yours just without all the extra government junk. Could your problem just be a simple problems with your linkage, the bottom link in my book shows a pin for the rear PTO shaft. Could pin be broken ór missing and now it's just slipping on the shaft.
Losing both rear and Mid has me wondering that it could then be inside transmission.

 

[sspenst]

looking at the service manual, I'd say there 3 possible things that might be the problem.
1- the PTO clutch inside could be the issue. most PTO systems uses some sort of clutch pack. I think yours is considered LIVE PTO. you have no wires to activate the clutch.
2- the PTO on/off lever(the the pins that hold the linkage on the shafts, roll pins i think)
3- The shift fork inside the rear axle at the very back could have broken (most likely because both Rear & MID PTO are affected).
I think the very back can be unbolted from the rear of the axle and I think the whole PTO assembly comes out, think there is a coupler on the main drive shaft...
I helped my uncle with his 3215 shuttle tear down and reassembly. (replaced pinion ring gear set, new rear end housing and new bearing holder assembly.) $$$$
I think you may have access via the top cover to inspect the clutch pack.
Inspection camera might help, only two places to enter would be the fill hole in front of seat and there's a pipe plug at the rear of the top cover I think(was on my 3016). if you got or can get a small inspection camera.

 

[Sergei1]

You mentioned in your first post that when engaged that it was barely rotating. Have you taken hold of the shaft ( very carefully) to see if it under power or just freely rotating.
Does the mid PTO also barely rotate when engaged.
Since you have two separate forks for each PTO on the same PTO rail, do both act the same
With power off and PTO engaged you should only be able to rotate clockwise with resistance and not the other direction at all.

 

[BillC72]

When engaged, it rotates at about 35 rpm and can be stopped with hand strength. I'm leaning toward the shaft coupling. It feels like it's being driven by oil film at the shaft ends if that makes sense.will check mid pto to see if it rotates at all. We use the tractor almost daily and I just hate to tear it down, but that's where its going.

 

[Sergei1]

When engaged, it rotates at about 35 rpm and can be stopped with hand strength. I'm leaning toward the shaft coupling. It feels like it's being driven by oil film at the shaft ends if that makes sense.will check mid pto to see if it rotates at all. We use the tractor almost daily and I just hate to tear it down, but that's where its going.

Have you tried it with engine off and engaged, did it rotate freely In both directions or only one with resistance?

 

[BillC72]

Update. Began by removing pto assembly from rear of tractor. Everything is perfect. Discovered the splines shaft inside the tractor spins freely in both directions.....bad deal. Then removed top cover containing 3 point arms....case is immaculate, no debris, or any signs of wear. So now to split the HST section from rear to find out why the actual pro drive shaft spins absolutely free, no resistance at all. Hope to get pics up when I find my issue.

 

[Sergei1]

If you haven't already, you need to purchase a Service manual .It should give you all the instructions to do it.
Did you every check the Mid PTO ? Does it do the same thing.
Also the HST uses a One Way Clutch. Probably already answered but how old is the fluid and filter? How many hours?
Just a wild thought have you checked the oil pressure in HST? Low oil pressure caused by a pump, maybe.

 

[BillC72]

I have a digital copy of the service manual..must admit I've seen far more detailed manuals. The hydraulic oil is changed at regular service intervals and this case and gears are all pristine. When I freely spin the pto shaft I can see through the fill hole that there is no rotation at the one way clutch. Manual shows a moon key in there...I'm thinking that's my issue. Gonna try to get it split tonight.

 

[BillC72]

Her it is... the one way clutch unit free spins internally. No resistance at all. This pto has only been used around 10hrs of the 700 on this tractor. And has only ran a 5' tiller each spring and fall. No oversized attachment. There is no visible breakage visible.

 

[BillC72]

Call Bill's in the morning

 

[BillC72]

Key intact with no marks.

 

[Sergei1]

You say no resistance so is that both clockwise and counter clockwise movement?
If I'm reading the specification of PTO clutch the inner part turns clockwise and outer turns counterclockwise

 

[BillC72]

The inside section spins absolutely free in both directions. The outer section could be seen spinning under power through the oil fill hole, but there is no transmission of power through the clutch to the pto intermediate shaft. (Other than the fluid film drive I described in an earlier post). I am relieved to know what the issue is, and very happy no parts grenaded into my system to plug anything. I'm just a bit disappointed at the failure of the clutch as I dont use the pto for anything but my tiller. My tiller has a slip clutch that does slip if I encounter a large rock. I actually would feel more responsible for this failure if the key had sheared off.at least then I would have to believe I over stressed the system.Thanks to every one who added input on my issue. Gonna order the part and put it all back together!

 

[sspenst]

Glad to hear you hopefully found the issue. Now hopefully you can get parts quick........... that's a bigger issue these days keep us informed.