Mahindra's lift ratings...

Bob_Skurka · Aug 18, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Jerry just thinking about this a bit, I think your theory is flawed. The lift capacity ratings are the "maximum" rating. I would have to believe that the engineers have figured out how to measure the capacity at the "maximum" point and the MARKETING people would have listed the "maximum" capacity, regardless of where the pins are set in whatever holes. SO with that in mind, any changing of leverage point would actually lower the capacity not increase it simply because the "maximum capacity" is the maximum and that is why they call it the maximum.

JerryG · Aug 18, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

I will get out some shop manuals and see if they tell anything. It may be flawed and you may be right.

SonnieP · Aug 18, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

( without people getting their undies in a bunch! )

( Hey, my undies are all in a bunch! It's over a different matter, but still... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

You guys crack me up. (oops)

Yes... I did in fact believe I had more lifting power than what I actually do. While it's true it's not that important to me (mainly because I can't imagine ever needing more than what I really have and it's still a lot)... it still disappoints me that Mahindra markets their tractor like they do. The thing is that the majority of Mahindra owners will never ever know the truth. We only represent a teenie weenie fraction here.

Hey... what's smaller than a teenie weenie fly?

I opened up the USDA magazine we got in the mail today and Mahindra has a full page ad in there. It's a remake of their TV commercial with one of there compacts picking up a JD on the front and a Kubota on the back. Of course their claim in the add is says "They're not the only ones with lifting power." (or something to that effect - don't have it in front of me and too lazy to get out of the recliner). Anyway... my point here is that I betcha most people would look at that ad and think to themselves that Mahindra can lift more than JD or Kubota... which may be the case with some of the comparisons even with compensations... not sure. The insinuation of the marketing is somewhat misleading to me. Now I think it's got enough lifting power for about anything any of them would do.... but still.

The very first tractor I looked at and was initially going to be satisfied with buying was the JD 5103... then the M-F 451 won the JD over. Price was my biggest concern. Then later when some money started growing on a few of our money trees out back... I started to think big and bad. I started thinkin' about the FEL (that initially I had no intention of getting) and what all I could do with it. I thought about how much earth I'd like to move and some other things that swayed me to a 4WD. I thought I needed to look at heavier tractors and wanted to step up in HP... more weight means better grip and better oomph when moving earth (at least I would think)... plus better stability. I was checking out a Farmtrac when the dealer mentioned the 5500 Mahindra and started giving me some info and pricing. I had remembered seeing some folks here post on those but I dismissed them initially until I spoke with Mr. Helms of Helms and Sons in Montgomery (NH and Mahindra dealer). I called him just to check on NH prices for the heck of it. He started talking Mahindra info and prices and suggested I investigate them.... gave me their website address. I started checking them out and reading about them here and just felt like they were a lot of tractor for the money. BUT I don't believe I ever even looked at lifting power initially before I made my decision. The numerous features, weight, big tires, HP, and price sold me... along with some pretty interesting history behind Mahindra and Mahindra and there tractor sales division. That's when I started thinkin'... heck, I can get a 6500 4WD w/ FEL for the same price I'd have to pay for a less HP, less weight, less featured tractor of another brand. This also allowed me to step up on my implements to accomodate more work and a heavier workload. It just all made sense, especially when I stumbled across the deal I did.

Man... I can ramble! And I left out a bunch of that story.

A flie's teenie weenie!

SonnieP · Aug 19, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Brent... I wanted to address a comment I made and your response in another thread but I didn't want to continue to hijack that thread... I felt I'd damaged it enough.

( ME: If I'm not mistaken (which I could very well be), didn't Mahindra manufacture more tractors in the US last year than any other manufacturer? )

( YOU: From most accepted accounts, JD, NH, and Kubota made up over 90% of the tractors sold. I think somebody is feeding you bad information. I think you can look it up, and it seems undisputed, that Mahindra is the #4 manufacturer in the world; behind NH, Kubota, and JD.)

No offense meant here but I just wanted to point out that I was not suggesting that Mahindra was anywhere close to having the most market share or selling the most tractors necessarily. I believe I read right here on this forum that Mahindra had passed NH in market share in US, although that poster could have been wrong... I dunno. I believe manufacturing and market share are two different categories... BUT I still think I was wrong on that comment I made. I know I read somewhere though that they manufactured more tractors in 2004 than any other manufacturer (unfortunately I don't have any supporting evidence - I did so much reading and researching that I can't find it YET)... I think what I read may have been that they manufactured more tractors in the world than anyone else. They could have manufactured more in 2004 and still only be the 3rd or 4th in overall manufacturing to date or 3rd or 4th in market share. They may have just built more but may not have sold them yet... merely anticipating sales. I fully understand that Kubota has more owners out there with JD falling in with second most owners. I do know that Mahindra claims to be the largest tractor manufacturer in the largest tractor market, which is India... so that could be what I was remembering I had read. I'll admit that I could still be wrong on the 2004 thingy or the someone that wrote it where I read it may be wrong.

Dargo · Aug 19, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

I have forgotten which thread it was, but a few months ago (maybe more) I'd tried to look up the top 10 tractor manufacturers. The first 4 were easy. It doesn't seem that any companies dispute that. However, from #5 on, it seems that every company disputes what the other company says. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I believe I found no less than 4 or 5 companies who stated on their website that they were the 5th largest tractor manufacturer. So, just because you said that you have no evidence to your statement, don't feel as if anyone (that I know of) really does. It is a foggy area at best. My statement was only based on the consensus of what is posted and is most widely regarded as being true. I'm not aware of any record book, and I spent (wasted) about 5 hours researching the topic. The "facts" that I settled on were simply due to those claims being the most oft repeated claims that were not disputed by other companies. Just try to see if you can find out who is the 5th largest tractor manufacturer! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In that thread I did mention that I was shocked that Mahindra & Mahindra actually built most of our WWII Willy's Jeeps. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I sort of thought that claim was some bravo sierra, but apparently not. I think that fact would really rattle some of the "buy American" guys at some of these gun and military shows who are proudly sitting in their Willy's Jeep - that was made by Mahindra! It's likely my fault, but I think you believe I have a much dimmer view of Mahindra tractors than I do. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif But, I don't mind stirring it a little. I think we all learn that way. Just watch, someone will take offense to this particular post. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

SonnieP · Aug 19, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

LOL...

I was also shocked to learn they built the jeeps as well as they (M&M) seem to have had and still have their fingers in a few things.

Did you catch ths...

( Mahindra's Farm Equipment Sector has won the prestigious Deming Application Prize awarded by the Union of Japanese Scientists and Engineers (JUSE) in 2003. This prize is considered to be equivalent to the Nobel Prize in the area of Quality of Management. The FES has become the First Tractor Manufacturer in the world to win this prestigious award.

The Farm Equipment Sector is the first Tractor Company in the world to win the Deming Application Prize. Also, it is the fourth company in India and the 10th in the world, outside Japan, to win this prize. )

Never heard of it but to equate it with the Nobel Prize award???

What I don't understand is Mahindra has some history and I see comments that no one has much experience with them and we don't have enough history with them to determine if they are reliable (I'm paraphrasing here)... BUT they've been around for a long time... just not in the USA. Granted, folks here in the USA don't have much experience with them under the Mahindra name but what about IH? Also they've been tested and proven in India where the largest tractor market is and they lead that area in sales. That has to speak something for the company.

Larstan · Aug 20, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

O.K. heres what I have found, I am replying to your post Bob because you seem to have put the most time and research in.
I have a Mahindra 2615 4WD HST......

This attachment is straight out of my Mahindra operators manual. That 1653 Lbs @ 24" behind lift point in the operators manual is the same number listed in the brochure for the 2615 4WD but not the 2615 4WD HST which lists 2205 Lbs.

The interesting thing about the Mahindra material is the none of the printed or online marketing literature says anything about where that lift capacity originates. It only states in the operators manual "Lifting capacity 24" behind Lift Point" The brochures just say "Lift capacity" and give the number.

I think that answers at least one of the questions (do they list that info somewhere?) but opens up a new can O worms. So does that mean that the number in this manual is only for the HST which would mean that the brochures are overstating the lift capacity by about 25% or is the brochure a missprint and both versions of the 2615 should be at 1653?Another thing is that the 3015 HST (next column in the brochure) lists its lift capacity at 2205 Lbs also and that is the next model up. The operators manual cover says "operators Manual 2615 & 3015" no distinction between HST and gear.

Just thought I would throw this in and muddy the water a little /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob_Skurka · Aug 20, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

Larry what I've found is that often the owners manaul/operators manual has the detail. The marketing material has fluff. JD does some similar things with some of their numbers on their smaller tractors too. I'm getting a bit confused as to where what was said because this same issue is being discussed in at least 3 threads over the past 3 days, but I know that Massey does the same thing with their 3pts too.

What is really nice is when the manufacturer shows the graphs/charts on the FEL capacities that acutally show weight capacity at the pivot pins, the bucket center and the bucket lip. To complicate things, a loader will have different capacities at different heights too. The graphs/charts show that in an easy to read format. It is hard to explain to someone that they can lift 2000# to 12" at the pivot point, but about 1400# at the bucket center at 12" but the only have 1100# at the bucket center at full lift height.

All of this is confusing to say the least, but it is not limited to Mahindra.

Larstan · Aug 20, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

( Larry what I've found is that often the owners manaul/operators manual has the detail. The marketing material has fluff. )

I agree with you about the 'Fluff' the one thing that occurs to me with mahindra in particular is that Mahindra may not be trying to mislead but is not very good at writing the sales literature. I say that because they don't give a lift point at all in the brochure and sometimes when non native english speakers translate to english they will condense or omit when it is not clear how to state something. But clearly the 1653 Lbs. lift capacity from the brochure jibes with the "1653 Lbs 24" behind the lift point" (for the gear model anyway) in the manual. I say all this because the info is there and seems to indicate that the numbers are not misleading. I will qualify that statement with the fact that there is a discrepancy between the GEAR and HST. This is also my first tractor and I did purchase the Mahindra because I was trying to get the most bang for my buck /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. So I was pretty much 'color blind' going into this.

( What is really nice is when the manufacturer shows the graphs/charts on the FEL capacities that acutally show weight capacity at the pivot pins, the bucket center and the bucket lip. )

They do graqh their loader specs and it does have the info for "20" forward of pivot pin" "Roll back force" "At pivot pins" info on the graph. I attached a shot of it but it is not very clear.

Keith_B · Aug 21, 2005

Re: Mahindra\'s lift ratings...

( I also give Massey a bit of extra credit points for some of the numbers they make available and easy to find, such as breakout force at the bucket lip. That is probably the most true number to actually measure. Some brands don't even show that number in their product manuals!)

I would venture a guess that this is not shown in manuals because of the number of different bucket options that would impact the rating. I purchased the quick attach option with my loader, and my bucket lip will be farther from the pivots than the standard bucket.