Making Copper Pipe into Overhead Sprinkler

[scootr]

I would make a test using fixed spray heads. Home depot should have everything you need.
Half circles. Make sure they overlap a bit for full coverage.
Maybe make up a section and hook it to a garden hose in the driveway to see what kind of coverage you get.
Keep us posted.

 

[rScotty]

There's been a lot of research on roof fire sprinklers and how houses ignite in fires in the last few decades.

Wildfires usually are accompanied by wind. Either there's a strong wind driving the fire or the fire makes its own wind (which I can attest to having been a wildland fire fighter). Your sprinkler system needs to take that into account. If the sprinklers are on the roof spraying up, the water's going to get blown away from the leading edge of the house.

There's plenty on the internet about this, for example:

https://www.7thgenerationdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/fire-WEEDS.pdf

Before sprinklers I'd ensure that the roof vents are ember resistant. They make a lot of them now as they're required when building in WUI areas in California. Brandguard is one company. Blown embers getting inside via vents is a major cause of house ignition in a fire. If you watch footage people shot while fleeing the town of Paradise during the Camp fire you will see how bad the embers can be. There's a ton of info on the internet about this too.

One problem with a sprinkler system is having the water to run it, and deciding when to turn it on. It doesn't do any good if it will run for four hours on your gravity-fed water system but the fire arrives eight hours after you evacuate and turn the sprinklers on. Or if you're on a pressure tank and the power goes out. Fire crews often refill their truck's tanks while parked at a house during a fire, so you want to leave some water for them.

Eric, that's an excellent slide presentation. Thanks for the link. The recommended installations look a lot like what I've been thinking of doing. Two friends have lost their places to wildfires in the last decade and we spend a lot of time talking about it.

Windblown embers seem to be the main igniter. One friend said that the windward side of his barn looked like buckshot hit it where embers had lodged and burnt through. And inside his large (20 horse) barn the spraying embers made it look like a fireworks display. Nothing caught fire... Barn is still there.

All the eaves on our house and barn are boxed in. That is pretty typical construction in a wildfire area. We do not have asphalt shingles of course - having that type of shingle would make everything else a waste of time.
Water supply is a creek, so no problem with water. The shallow well can easily supply plenty. Generator is propane right now, but there is the tractor with PTO pump - which I need to experiment with using directly from from the creek. That is another project...

Venting is interesting. Very important many places, but this is high mountain dry desert climate. The barn is for machines rather than animals these days, so it isn't vented any longer. As far as that goes, few high mountain houses are permanently vented. They tend to use doors and windows fror the small amount of active venting people like. Keeping things humidified is important too.
rScotty

 

[ericm979]

In my part of California the attics are often vented to let the hot air out in summer but the living space in newer houses is pretty air tight. Our house that was built in the '80s isn't but the neighbor's new ADU is so tight that they need a whole house ERV to get enough air turnover.

There's new rules from the state insurance commissioner that when insurance companies cancel your policy they have to tell you what you can do to not get cancelled. Someone in my area who got one of those letters shared it, and one of the things that's on that list is boxed-in eaves.

The guy who built our place put in roof sprinklers but he put them half way up the roof which was the thinking at the time.

We're likely to evacuate well before any fire gets here. I would not be turning the sprinkers on when I leave as there won't be water left for the firefighters. Maybe they can turn them on.

 

[JPRambo]

Something with a fine mist. Drill a hole and insert

 

[paulsharvey]

Something like a MiG tip might make an easy, pre-made, and uniform nozzle.

 

[3Ts]

Post #24 beat me to it. But that's what I'd use.

Micro sprinkler

 

[Carl_NH]

I know you want to use copper or similar materials, but in my opinion PVC or Poly pipe would be much easier, since if it's hot enough to melt or damage the poly or PVC (over 150F) then you have a real problem no matter the pipe.

I have used Drip Depot and are happy with their products, and you can get misting and micro nozzles too, and if you put the 1/2" poly or PVC in the eves and just exposed the sprinlker head that might be a good solution. Misting cooling misting kits

 

[MossRoad]

Something with a fine mist. Drill a hole and insert

I use a couple dozen of those on my flowers and vegetables.

 

[civilian]

If you want to drill a hole, like others I think a round hole drilled will be a stream. But if you can use a die grinder with a really thin cut off wheel to nick the copper. Maybe that would leave a slit for wider coverage. Jon

 

[quicksandfarmer]

You can buy real fire sprinkler heads on Amazon for about six bucks each, probably less if you shop. These are the ones that open automatically at a certain temperature.

Around me fire sprinklers are now done with orange CPVC pipe. It can handle boiling water which is as hot as the pipe is going to get and still be useful.

 

[sixdogs]

Great thread with good ideas for a start.Don't forget in-line filters to catch grit that can disable the results. We did drip irrigation and it was surprising how small of a piece of grit can screw things up.
Another good source for info would be a fire dept in a fire prone area that likely has dealt with this before. They may not know the answers but they could point you in a direction.

 

[NSPbiker]

I added sprinkler protection to "vulnerable" parts of my shop, mainly over the workbenches and my main work area which has a 9' ceiling. I'm in the fire alarm industry so have some basic knowledge of fire sprinklers. I used 1/2" copper (it was way cheaper 15 years ago) and installed proper fire sprinkler heads. These have design dispersion and are available at varying temperature ratings. I keep the water line charged for fast response to a fire and I also have a full-protection detection system. If you do this be sure to put a drain valve in the lowest point of the piping. I'm subject to freeze in winter so I drain it in cold times.
Here's one source for heads: https://www.amazon.com/Approved-TUN...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583589115499067&psc=1

 

[2manyrocks]

I've wondered whether it might be better to install the sprinkler lines in the ground, but aim the heads up at the walls and eves insofar as freeze protection is concerned?

 

[rScotty]

Interesting. So if these are standard - or as you say, "proper fire sprinkler heads"...there is probably information on coverage, pressure, flow rate and such. Do you have any tech specs you prefer?
I'm suprised that half inch copper is large enough, but that just shows how much I have to learn.

I'm thinking that it would make more sense for what I am doing on our property is not to try to put a fire out, but to simply making it more difficult for windblown embers to ignite a larger fire.
rScotty

 

[Gord Baker]

I am going to some effort - it seems worthwhile....and of course we all need projects.

My original idea was to run the pipe right along the peak - use sprinklers and let it just drain down the side of the roof and eaves. However, that means a lot of up high work for my aging old body. This all started when I did some tests years ago on the top grade of "fire resistant" asphalt shingles and was sadly disappointed. So this year when the time came for a new covering I put on steel. Now the roof covering itself is protected pretty well and I blocked in the soffits with concrete boad. That left the barn sides & large doors which are gradually becoming covered & trimmed with cement board.

The total length will only be about 150 feet. It's a smallish barn. I like the de-burrng idea to make a well to shape the spray. Wonder if that will work?
Next task will be to make up a section of pipe and play with the various well and whatever shapes. See if it can be made to spray.

The pop-in sprayers were my first choice, and if I can find some that seem decent quality then I'm going to make up a test section for that as well.

I hear you on the 1/2 " pipe not being large enough volume for the entire run. Good point. I'll put a Y manifold so I feed two lengths - and upsize the pipe too.

Thanks for all the good ideas,
rScotty

Consider 'Punching" the holes with a small screwdriver type bit. Aligned with the axis of the pipe they might spray a 'band' instead of a cone to wet the sides of the structure.

 

[MossRoad]

I've wondered whether it might be better to install the sprinkler lines in the ground, but aim the heads up at the walls and eves insofar as freeze protection is concerned?

If he has it overhead, it should gravity drain and freezing won't be a problem. You can put an automatic drain on the lowest point of a system just to be sure, like sprinkler systems.

Underground sprinklers have to be drained and/or blown out each fall in areas where freezing occurs, or ice can form in the lines and burst them.

 

[Fxfymn413]

I am a retired firefighter who was the Fire Marshal for a large department.

I applaud your efforts, but application of water should be the last step in keeping your place safe. First and foremost is that if you are concerned about a grass fire being the ignition source you need to be proactive about keeping a clear space around your structures so the fuel is not close enough to ignite them. Even 20 feet of clear space will greatly lower the chances of fire spread. Look here for more tips: Wildfire preparedness tips

If you do want to add protection my suggestion would be to use what are known as "deluge" heads. These are open fire sprinkler heads that disperse a chosen water pattern. In your case you can choose a head that deflects the spray pattern down to wet the walls.

When water is sent to the supply pipes all of the heads will flow, kind of like what Hollywood typically pretends all fire sprinklers do. If you use regular heat activated heads the chances are that they will never activate since you have no way to trap the heat needed to open them.

There are many ways to activate the heads, but most are pretty expensive for this type of installation since you cannot use heat as the trigger. Things like ultra violet flame detection exist for situations like this, but they are way too expensive for what fire sprinkler professionals consider to be a low value risk. Frankly I'm stumped about how to open the water supply valve unless you manually do it. The obvious down side to that is you may not be home when protection is needed.

What may be an even better way of protecting your property is to install a fire detection system in the buildings. Smoke detectors will not work, but heat detectors will. You can install most systems for less than $1K and have them monitored for around 25 bucks a month. Plus burglar protection will be included as well. Although remember a fire will take everything a thief only some things.

 

[eddieirvine]

pvc with small lawn sprinklers that spray out a fan pattern, can be bought at local depot stores cheap ! figure out what you would need to plumb them in to the pvc, hose fitting to another pvc fitting. As far as winterizing blow air thru the lines.

 

[charlessenf]

Why not use 1" poly tubing?

Could be he's not recently priced 1/2" Cu?

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

in hog barns we do similar to keep animals cool in summer.

The irrigation industry makes these little plastic jobs you could tap in or glue. (about 10 cents each)
In the barns we use brass ones. (about 70 cents each)
We use poly pipe as cheaper than copper but heck use what you have. Also metal better for heat / fire i'm sure.

We live in a pine forest subject to fires. When fire in neighbourhood the local volunteer fire department come around and screws into the peaks of all our roofs big impulse sprinklers like you see in golf courses plus leaves behind a gas water pump and a portable containment pool (what looks like a big kiddy pool) full of water in case power goes off the gas pump is there to charge the sprinkler

ember defender makes roof mount stuff