Making One Tire Into Two.

[Egon]

Concrete has gota work!

 

[Mace Canute]

Another way to do it is with wood! I can envision building wheels from plywood, glued and bolted together, layer upon layer. You could even reduce the diameters of the circles to match the two center drive ribs and if you cut holes close to the face of this wooden wheel, you could put in steel rod to fit the cutouts in the drive ribs and have positive drive. Maybe those rods could be bolts to hold the whole thing together. The center hub shouldn't present much of a problem but you "wood" have to watch out for termites! (Is that too campy a pun?) lol

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Great ideas and great suggestions. I haven't ruled out the idea of completely fabricating something new. Rather than the wood, or hyster tires, wheelbarrow tires, etc.; if I were going to fabricate, I'd just make something more like the original with a steel cylinder that rides on top of the chain portion and teeth that engage with the sprocket. I'd have to refabricate something to replace the missing links from the track too.

In the mean time, I'm looking for something much more simple. One problem I have is that the wheels on this axle are for all intents and purposes permanently corroded to the axles. I tried one afternoon a year or so ago to get them off for a different project, and they aren't coming off. A last resort is that I could cut them off. Then I'd fabricate something like the steel wheel/sprocket described above.

I re-measured the height of the chain portion of the track above the rubber portion. I must have lied earlier, because it's only 1 inch. I'm sure I could get a 1 inch thick tread off of some old truck tire and glue it to the outside of this lawn mower tire. Two strips on each of four tires, and I'm good to go. The added benefit is that the air in the tires may give me a bit of a cushion. I'm still not sure if I'm going to try some kind of suspension or not.

I'm still hoping to get some kind of input as to an adhesive that would permanently glue the truck tread to the outside of the mower tire. Google searches are bringing up thousands of unrelated adhesives for everything from paper to RV roofs.

 

[mrcaptainbob]

Get the high density expanding foam-in-the-can stuff. Drill some 3/8" relief holes spaced around both sides of the tire wall and along the tread in a nice enough pattern to ensure total filling. Fill that sucker 'till foam is oozing out of each hole. Let it cure for a couple days. Fashion some sort of 'lathe' setup where you can score that tire and foam while it's spinning. Maybe use some knotted wire wheel on an angle grinder to remove that rubber. It will be messy. Use goggles and breathing protection. After grinding the groove, slather some protective coating on the foam. Maybe a couple tubes of urethane that's used to secure auto windows to auto body's. Flexible, tenacious and won't wear out for your application. Wear rubber gloves for this, slather it all over and let dry.

 

[archerm3]

I was once pronouced by a group of phychiatrists that I worked for in college to be the most sane person they knew. This thread may prove them wrong.

Here's what I want to do: I want to take a rear lawn mower tires in the first picture and make each one into two narrower tires. And, I want to do this without ever taking the tire off the rim or the rim off the axle.

Crazy, huh?

The whole purpose is to make drive wheels for the tracks in the second picture. It could work quite nicely. The wheels are the same width as the track, and the diameter of the wheels works real well with the size of the tracks to. All I need is a gap in the middle of each wheel for the chain in the middle of the track to ride in. The project is a small scale half track for the kids (and me) to drive around. I'm planning to use the transmission from the mower to drive the half track.

Here's how I plan to do it. I'll remove the valve stem and fill each tire with enough of some kind of resin or liquid something-that-hardens to make one side of the tire. I'll set the whole assembly on end to allow the stuff to cure. Then I'll flip the whole thing over and do it again. When everything has set, I'll cut the middle of the tire out. Voila! One tire is now two.

Here's the question: What kind of liquid something-that-hardens should I use?

Why dont you take a cable and wrap it around the middle of the tire at about 75% of the diameter, leaving or using an inner tube with normal air it for required suspension and track tension?

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Here's a picture of what the track would look like with the tires as-is. It would be nice to have the wheels smaller and the track a little longer, but for the purposes at hand this will be okay.

 

[westcliffe01]

I think that if you look for the mini excavator sprockets and idlers you will find it less expensive and simpler in the end. Resin is $80/gal You can see where that cost will go. Without reinforcing (fiberclass or carbon fiber of equal weight to the resin 50/50), it will have no strength at all.

You can save the rollers on the bottom and use a skid with 1/2" thick plastic facing to spread the weight. The plastic will be consumeable. Those tracks are made to transfer ground load to the undercarriage. If you don't support it between the wheels it will stretch out (elongate the links) in no time unless you vehicle will be very light.

 

[athomp]

If it wasn't for the cost the epoxy resin idea would probably be the way to go - just fill the tires then cut the groove out when cured. The problem with the can of spray foam is that it won't cure unless there is a lot of air in the tire. You'd have to make lots of holes in the tires and do little bits at a time. Even then it may not hold up to the punishment when the groove is cut out. Another thought I had is to get get a bunch of tubes of cheap silicone caulking and fill the tires up with that.

 

[BXpanded]

I'm still hoping to get some kind of input as to an adhesive that would permanently glue the truck tread to the outside of the mower tire. Google searches are bringing up thousands of unrelated adhesives for everything from paper to RV roofs.

There are adhesives specifically designed for adhering rubbers. Unfortunately, most require vulcanizing.
Cyanoacrylates hold pretty well if the surface is clean and good contact is made. Both surfaces need to be smooth and a very thin application is stronger than a thick coating.. Several industrial suppliers like Loctite make versions far superior to the consumer type Superglue / Krazyglue from the local store. All CAs are weakened by long term exposure to water.
I have no idea how well you could get it to work on the treaded tire.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

There are adhesives specifically designed for adhering rubbers. Unfortunately, most require vulcanizing.
Cyanoacrylates hold pretty well if the surface is clean and good contact is made. Both surfaces need to be smooth and a very thin application is stronger than a thick coating.. Several industrial suppliers like Loctite make versions far superior to the consumer type Superglue / Krazyglue from the local store. All CAs are weakened by long term exposure to water.
I have no idea how well you could get it to work on the treaded tire.

I've thought more about it, and I think the best bet will be to somehow rivet the outer ring together so that all the glue needs to do is hold it from sliding around on the tire. I think I'm going to hit up the local tire store if I decide to go that route and see if they have anything. I've heard of farmers around here gluing oversize lugs onto their pivot tires when they have really sandy soil. Someone around here must have the technology I'd need.

 

[Wis Bang]

I once passed a mercedes that had 8 tires, 2 at each wheel position. It was the craziest thing I ever saw. They would work but the cost migght be prohibitive.

Check out the trac systems for skid steers. Something woo worn for a rental machine could be just right for your needs...

 

[mkeith54]

Why not pick up a couple of road gators and trim them to size and wire them back together? Would not work with a fast mover, but for something slow it might work. If you need sides to keep them from walking off try using flt iron bent into a 90 and bolted on with plow bolts.

 

[Craig Clayton]

Dear Sir
I viewed the photo of the track and wheel profile. I believe there are going to be greater forces at work on the tires than you hope for and the rubber tire assembly will fail. I built a scale model of a Case 450 under carriage in metal. When you look at army tanks they use 2 wheels to run the track profile that you are using through. These are mini digger tracks and slow speed and heavy. I have some tires that came from an airport ground equipment that are the size of camper trailer tires but solid rubber 4 bolt pattern. Somthing similiar could be matched front and back = 8 tires. Or cut the middle sprocket out and make skid steer types on thick tires.
Craig Clayton

 

[o2batsea]

How do you plan on steering this contraption if you do succeed in getting the tracks on? You have to have independent control over each side so that one side can be either stationary or in reverse while the other is going forward. Otherwise it goes only where it happens to be pointed and that's it.
What did the tracks come from? A little walk behind skid steer? Maybe you should just look for one of those and skip the science project.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

How do you plan on steering this contraption if you do succeed in getting the tracks on? You have to have independent control over each side so that one side can be either stationary or in reverse while the other is going forward. Otherwise it goes only where it happens to be pointed and that's it.
What did the tracks come from? A little walk behind skid steer? Maybe you should just look for one of those and skip the science project.

Finding a little walk behind skid steer is much easier said than done. I've had my eyes out for a junk mini excavator or any kind of small tracked vehicle. There just aren't any that I've found unless I wanted to just buy a working one. For that money I'd just get my kids an electric power wheels car and spend our bonding time building plastic models in a cute little cookie cutter house in the suburbs. That's not my style, though.

I understand the concern about the tracks needing to move at different speeds. That's the point in using the lawn mower axles. These axles have a differential built in.

It's a halftrack, so there will be wheels in the front that steer the vehicle. The tracks will provide the power. With the differential, one side can even be stationary while the other side powers the vehicle through the turn.

I've attached some images from a Google Sketchup sketch that I did to get some ideas regarding size and scale. There's an image of the vehicle as planned, and there's a closeup of the tires as currently planned.

 

[/pine]

if you're still undecided...

Regular epoxy would fracture and break up...you might check into "poly" epoxy...

What first came to mind when I read the original post was silicone but that application would take several days to cure....

Another option may be a fibered casting resin (polymer)

 

[Iplayfarmer]

if you're still undecided...

Regular epoxy would fracture and break up...you might check into "poly" epoxy...

What first came to mind when I read the original post was silicone but that application would take several days to cure....

Another option may be a fibered casting resin (polymer)

A few days is not a problem. We're only working on this project one day a week, and we figure about a year to complete it. Is there a cheap source of silicone besides tubes of caulk?

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Dear Sir
I viewed the photo of the track and wheel profile. I believe there are going to be greater forces at work on the tires than you hope for and the rubber tire assembly will fail. I built a scale model of a Case 450 under carriage in metal. When you look at army tanks they use 2 wheels to run the track profile that you are using through. These are mini digger tracks and slow speed and heavy. I have some tires that came from an airport ground equipment that are the size of camper trailer tires but solid rubber 4 bolt pattern. Somthing similiar could be matched front and back = 8 tires. Or cut the middle sprocket out and make skid steer types on thick tires.
Craig Clayton

Thanks for the thoughts, Craig. I'd love to see some photos or get more details about the scale model of the Case 450.

 

[Willl]

That's the point in using the lawn mower axles.

Just so happens I'm looking for someone to unload an old rider on.....

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Just so happens I'm looking for someone to unload an old rider on.....

Too bad you're not closer. I'm in Southeast Idaho. I am building a collection of riders without the rear axles lined up along the fence. Those peerless axles out of the cheap MTD mowers are great for a lot of little projects like this. I actually picked up another one of these mowers Saturday night. I saw one in a guy's yard and stopped and knocked on the door. It so happens that the guy was a renter and the actual owner is a guy I know. The owner said I could just have the mower, but I gave him $10 just to make it official.

Now I have two axles. They both have 5 forward gears and one reverse. I'm trying to decide if I want to make both axles drive or not.