Man have I got a goofy problem

[shenanigans]

First off let me say thanks to all the posters here. I've been coming around here for the past few years getting all kinds of answers to all kinds of issues.
You guys have helped me through a lot, First it was my old IH444 and Now with my Ford 1710.

With that said my newest issue made me actually reg. a nic and post about it in hopes someone has some input.

Tractor is an 85 Ford 1710 (3cyl diesel) with loader. Had this guy for a little over a year and it's been a real workhorse around my hobby farm.
From snow removal to pulling around the manure spreader to regrading it does it all and doesn't miss a beat.....at least till this last weekend.

About a month ago I changed the hydraulic fluid and filter. Now I'm fairly certain nobody has ever changed the filter on this machine before.
I don't use the PTO much but this past Saturday I hook up the ole trusty post hole digger and figured I'd get to work replacing some posts that old man winter took out by way of some downed trees.
I drive out and set the bucket down as I always do, 1 for stability, 2 for safety, flip the PTO leaver and nothing happens.
My immediate thought was my clutch is on the verged of taking a crap.
so I go to raise the bucket and head back to the barn and immediately my post hole auger springs to life the moment the bucket leaves the ground!
(yeah in my hurry/disgust I forgot to turn it off)
Anyhow I drive back to the barn and tinker around with things and the pto only spins with the bucket in the air?!
Now I say it spins but it has absolutely no juice. I even went as far as to set the auger to the ground and it doesn't have enough umph to turn up more than the first 1" or so of soil.
I thought the pto was all mechanical off the clutch but this weirdness with the bucket makes me think it's tied into the hydraulic system somehow?

Anyone have any guidance?

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[shenanigans]

Thanks DS....Sorry it took this kinda nonsense to man up and register.

 

[PHPaul]

Check your hydraulic oil level. It may use the transmission as the hydraulic sump, not familiar with Fords.

Your PTO may be hydraulically rather than mechanically driven, or the PTO clutch may be hydraulically actuated.

In either case, having the loader all the way down means maximum oil in the cylinders and it may be pulling the overall level low enough that the PTO is affected.

Just guessing here, could be completely out in left field.

 

[shenanigans]

yeah, unfortunately that was the first thing I checked. Level was more than fine. If anything it's a little over-filled, at least according to the dipstick.
Since I tend to be a little suspicious of things, I added more, just to make sure and no change.

 

[PHPaul]

Ah. Bummer.

Next suspicion is that it's a coincidence. Do you have the 2 stage clutch that allows "live" PTO operation? Clutch partway down, tractor stops, PTO keeps running, all the way down, both stop?

If so, a little surfing on the subject indicates that there's an adjustment for the PTO plate on the clutch.

 

[shenanigans]

Correct, I do have a 2 stage clutch.
I'm kinda leaning toward the clutch problem as well but the fact that the bucket operation makes it kick on and off is weird one.
I even went out the next day to see if anything acted different after sitting overnight....exact same issues.

 

[arlen4720]

I don't know exactly how the hydraulics are laid out on you machine, but....If the PTO clutch is hydraulically activated, there is usually a pressure relief valve specially for the clutch set at a couple hundred PSI just downstream of the clutch in the main hydraulic circuit. It is needed because in an open center system, there is no way to build pressure to activate the clutch. If that relief was stuck open, the clutch would not engage unless you activated a function down stream and built some back pressure. You might try to activate the curl to the bucket and deadhead the pump, and see if you get positive PTO engagement. If you do, you might have the PTO relief valve sticking.
I'm attaching a schematic for my 4720. I realize your tractor is allot different, but the principle of the PTO clutch can't be much different. See item M, it is what keeps the pto clutch pressurized.

 

[shenanigans]

I'm starting to think that finally changing the hydraulic filter and fluid after a faithful 29 years was just too much for the old gal to take.
I know it's a bit of a long shot here but I'm wondering if this particular tractor doesn't like the fluid I used as a replacement (std, 303 multipurpose)
Anyone think that could have something to do with it?

 

[PHPaul]

Correct, I do have a 2 stage clutch.
I'm kinda leaning toward the clutch problem as well but the fact that the bucket operation makes it kick on and off is weird one.
I even went out the next day to see if anything acted different after sitting overnight....exact same issues.

Perhaps, but you did say even when it turns it has no power. I sort of equate that to the PTO on my tractor creeping even when it's not turned on, just due to enough oil moving around in the transmission case.

 

[Zebrafive]

Maybe you are in "float" when you set the loader down and no hydraulics gets to the PTO clutch (if a hydraulic PTO clutch), but you say you have a two stage clutch.

So is there a separate lever to engage the PTO shaft in addition to the Clutch? Maybe enough friction (if disengaged) to spin it but not drive it under load?

 

[shenanigans]

yes, leaver is under left hand side of seat. It kicks the PTO on and off.
With pto on, operation of clutch will kick it on and off as well.

 

[rockinmywaypa]

I'm with zebrafive, if you have shoved the lever as far as it goes then nothing is going to happen. The oil is flowing but going where the least resistance is.