Measuring fuel additives

[California]

I noticed two people using 1/4 cup measuring cups but quoting 2 or 4 ounces of capacity. Hmmmm.

A stainless steel measuring cup works fine. This one is 2 oz (1/4 cup).

Musta been someotherbody.

 

[Skyco]

Scientific supply houses have neat plastic squeeze bottles with English and or Metric quantity markings. When you squeeze the bottle the liquid contents comes out a small pointed spout. Squeeze a little and read the change of contents level and squeeze some more till you get enough. Very handy and avoids messy spills.

Harbor Freight has them in a 6 pack pretty cheap. But they are lousy! Bought some for various uses. Here is the thing they are apparently some low grade of plastic that permits the more volatile components of the contents to escape right through the plastic! Put some Hoppes #9 in one on my reloading bench, very distinctive, and to me pleasant aroma. Kept smelling it, couldn't figure out where it was coming from- then I spotted the HF squeeze bottle with the sides all sucked in. Also put some zinc based cold galvanizing paint in one to squirt on fresh welds, same thing, bottle sides sucked in later. Good idea but buy better bottles than the HF ones

 

[RalphVa]

I use a 2 cycle oil container that has graduations in ml on the side of a see-through part of the container. You can buy containers of 2 cycle oil that dispense (think it's) 55 ml (cc) at a time into an upper container.

For most other stuff I use a measuring cup that has graduations of 1 tsp, 2 tsp, 1 tbsp on it. These are available at lawn and garden areas. Some stuff like Roundup come with a cup with graduations on it. These are all plastic.

Get one of those converter lists, available on magnetic backing, that show the conversions from ounces, cups, ml, etc. One gallon is 3781 ml. A 40/1 mix into 1 gallon would be roughly 90-100 ml.

Ralph

 

[Soundguy]

Maybee 'Glug Glug' if I'm pouring out of the big power service jug (gallon?) into an empty tractor inprep to refuel.... and perhas the 'glug' -or- 'glug glug' if I'm pouring out of the quart bottle into a diesel can in prep to haul some extra fuel out to the field.. etc.. (wink)

hmm.. diesel treatment and burbon? Smells more like scotch to me (wink)


Question for ya.. i saw you mentioned lucas fuel treatment.. I've never used it... how do you like it? Applications?

Soundguy

Would that be Glug Glug or glug glug? (Large case/small case glugs)

My uncle the bartender always told me "never eyeball a highball". Not sure how diesel fuel treatment and bourbon relate though.

 

[penokee]

Just filled up my Duramax and Kubota today - used the "Slosh Method" from my Power Service gallon jug. Gotta look for a small measuring cup also.
penokee

 

[patrick_g]

I was at Wally World today and saw 2 cycle oil for sale in measuring bottles with the reservoir you fill by squeezing the bottle. Should last through a few refills with your various additives.

Nalgene bottles aren't as reactive as the HF ones. They cost more but are pretty indestructible.

Pat

 

[RobertN]

I was going to mention those too. you already ordered them, but if needed could get them from about any place that has dirt bikes.

Well, I've got a couple of those Ratio-Rites on order. We'll see how they work out. Thanks for the link, Skyco.
Bob

 

[Bob_Young]

Ahhhh....Nalgene....that was the 'N' word. I was googling Nagalene; no wonder I drew a blank. I'll try that next. Thanks Danno.

The Ratio Rites got here last week. They look pretty good, though I'll have to dig out the 'readers' to make out the graduations. Certainly won't break if dropped.

Jay, believe it or not, the darned Dollar Store didn't have a cheap plastic measuring cup. Neither did Wally World. The guy at the grocery dug one up for me 'cept it wasn't cheap...nearly $4....and I was afraid the fuel additives might attack it (or the painted on graduations). 4 bucks would get you Pyrex a few years ago. With measuring cups so darned hard to find here, someone should open a measuring cup boutique. They'd have a near monopoly.

I glug-glugged 2-cycle oil into the CTD the last two fillups. Danged thing jumped up at least 2mpg. Getting almost 26mpg now and I haven't been babying it....much. So glugs are better than nothing
Bob

 

[patrick_g]

I mostly use stainless steel measuring cups which should outlast Pyrex. Typically you can get a whole set for about $5.

I have a couple sets. They both have 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, and one cup included. This is 2 ounces through 8 ounces. It is easy to estimate 1/2 oz or 1 oz using the 1/4. You can always use a stainless table spoon and or a teaspoon (3 tsp = 1 tbl spoon) if yoi need smaller fractioins than are convenient with the 2 oz cup (1/4 cub.)

The cheaper set is marked in ml as well as oz.

Pat

 

[joerocker]

I don't think anyone replied to a question about adding 2-stroke oil to diesel fuel for a tractor.

Will it hurt it? Help it? Do nothing? How much to add? Power Service just as good? Better? Add both?

I think the poster said something about one of those little bottles to 5 gal of fuel.

 

[Skyco]

I think the jury may still be out on 2 stroke oil added to diesel....
Be aware that some 2 stroke oils have octane boosters which are the opposite of what a diesel wants I have several gallons of 2 stroke oils left over from my 2 stroke outboard days...I've played with some in the diesel fuel in the pickup and it does indeed seem to run quieter but I'm not convinced it is a good idea yet...

 

[California]

FWIW - I've been experimenting a heavy concentration of hydraulic fluid mixed with diesel. It starts just as well, runs smoother, and doesn't make any smoke until full load. (The diesel before blending contained the recommended maximum Power Service - Silver cetane improver.)

I first tried 30% hydraulic blend, then put in more to make 50% concentration. (I want to use up this stuff while the weather stays warm.) These 2 cylinder Yanmars normally have a sharp diesel knock - actually more of a clank, like hammering on a manhole cover. This ersatz fuel tones that down to a purr.

I'm using up fluid that had sat five years in a backhoe I bought. (and this backhoe has a modern filter - 10 micron or whatever is standard). I expect any sediment or water settled to the bottom of the tank that time. I slowly siphoned off the top 3/4 of the backhoe reservoir without stirring up the bottom and this looks clean. It went through a fine screen in the funnel and another in the fuel tank inlet without leaving any sediment so I hope I won't see anything in the ordinary fuel filter.

I won't burn the remainder from the lower 1/4 of the backhoe reservoir.

I don't see how a little two cycle oil would hurt. It's designed to burn cleanly. But I wouldn't burn recently-drained hydraulic fluid because I expect water and sediment are homogenized throughout it. Also these old Yanmars have only a crude strainer so their trans/hydraulic fluid would surely contain sediment, and be unsuitable for burning.

Kids, don't try this at home in your modern computerized diesels!

 

[patrick_g]

I don't think anyone replied to a question about adding 2-stroke oil to diesel fuel for a tractor.

Will it hurt it? Help it? Do nothing? How much to add? Power Service just as good? Better? Add both?

I think the poster said something about one of those little bottles to 5 gal of fuel.

You can get an amazing variety of substances to pass through a diesel engine when mixed in the fuel. For some reason there is a fascination with lay personnel trying to find a magic elixir that somehow escaped the notice of the engineers who study diesel combustion. There are some chemicals sold for modifying the cetane rating and lowering the cloud point or gel temperature for cold weather operations and additives for replacing the lubricity of sulphur in equipment developed for high sulfur fuel.

Most of the other home brew AND commercially available snake oils limit there beneficial effect to the mind of the user.

A shop heater capable of burning oils would be my first choice for disposal of various combustible fuels, not a nice diesel engine whose life I might like to extend or whose failure would cost me $. When I bought my current property years ago it came with a 55 gallon drum of blue colored oil. The previous owner was in the dozer business in a big way (built golf courses.) He also left behind a DIY heater that he used to burn used oils to provide supplemental heating in the 2500+ sqft shop. I hoped the oil was something useful besides heating but was basically too conservative to experiment with it (considering the costs of the downside.) I was never sure just what it was or what it would have done to a diesel or a hydrostat or hydraulic system. I was confident what it would do in the DIY heater.

There are 2 stroke diesels. maybe THAT would be a use for 2 stroke oil

Oh, and by the way... Diesel's first compression ignition engine ran on coal dust.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

I hear ya pat. i cringe when i hear anybody buring waste and reclaimed oils in a diesel... Just seems like they are rollin gthe dice on when they will need to rebuild a pump or injector.

since i don't have the tools or equipment for either of those at home.. Only clean fuel / oils or addatives go in my tank.

I'd be way more inclined to add -clean- 2cyl oil to my fuel vs any waste oil.. etc..

Soundguy

 

[Skyco]

Ya know one of the big diesel engine manufacturers, I think it may have been Cummins, actually had a system that metered small amounts of the used engine oil into the fuel system for combustion...one just kept adding oil so over time it was self changing* Of course that was before the days of the electronic injectors and controls...

*Sortof like the old british motorcycles that always leaked oil, we called it a feature- self changing oil just keep pouring new oil in.......

 

[California]

one just kept adding oil so over time it was self changing*

*Sortof like the old british motorcycles that always leaked oil, we called it a feature- self changing oil just keep pouring new oil in.......

Back in the day ... Those British twins were even-firing, that is both pistons went up at the same time, and down at the same time. The resulting change in crankcase volume caused a tremendous velocity of air out and in the crankcase vent with each stroke. They aimed the vent hose at the chain to lube it.

And as you noted - I read an article summarizing a factory tour, and the factory rep said the oil exhausted out the vent was intentional, designed that way because they couldn't convince owners to change oil often enough.

 

[DieselPower]

Ya know one of the big diesel engine manufacturers, I think it may have been Cummins, actually had a system that metered small amounts of the used engine oil into the fuel system for combustion...one just kept adding oil so over time it was self changing* Of course that was before the days of the electronic injectors and controls...

*Sortof like the old british motorcycles that always leaked oil, we called it a feature- self changing oil just keep pouring new oil in.......

I think it was called the Century system and it was from Cummins. At one time I thought it wasn't a bad idea, then over the years I overhauled a couple of the engines in OTR tractors that had the system installed. After seeing the deposits in the combustion chamber, exhaust valve and top ring land I no longer thought it was such a good idea.

Best practice is to use good clean fuel and the proper additives. Leave the waste oil for the waste oil burner or oil recyclers. With today's ultra precision machined injectors, increased fuel injection pressure and temperature the last thing you want to be doing is running waste oil through the system.

 

[patrick_g]

Diesel Power hit the nail squarely on the head. He was inside the units burning a little crankcase oil and he didn't like what he saw.

Interesting side note: An old diesel engine can develop a condition whereby shutting off the fuel doesn't shut the engine down. If there is sufficient blow-by/leaks the engine may run on fumes and leaked oil and you have to shut off the air to kill the run away engine.

I knew a guy in college who recycled oil. He had a bucket hung under his model T ford. The leaks were so bad that every so often he'd dump the bucket back into the crankcase and put the bucket back under to catch the oil again.

I suppose if you had a centrifuge and a high pressure pump and a 0.1 micron high pressure filter you could reprocess the waste oil and include it at less than 1% and maybe not do unusual harm to the engine.

I personally find it amusing that people feel the need to have some magic elixir snake oil to add to fuel as if leaving well enough alone wasn't sufficient.

My BIL has a cocktail he adds to the gasoline in his Honda sedan. He has been using it for years in various cars and swears by it. He attributes his long engine life and good performance to it. I personally think since it is not a scientific experiment and since his results are not particularly different from other owners who take reasonable care of their cars that it is superstitious bunk.

I don't recall what all he uses or how much but acetone was one of the ingredients. I think it is all in his head and so long as he doesn't do any real harm he is just wasting time and money but not causing big problems. I offer this as an example of how an otherwise intelligent educated pretty smart guy gets off into an area of automotive "faith healing" and superstition. He has a masters in EE and 40 years as an analog engineer doing some really terrific work but he has this weird thing about his special mixture for adding to his gas.

Pat

 

[Egon]

It's the acetone fumes Pat!

 

[patrick_g]

It's the acetone fumes Pat!

I talked to my BIL this PM and I asked about his "magic formula." IT is just acetone and Marvel Mystery Oil. I didn't ask about ratios and amounts.

An inverse pressure oil dispenser that adds Marvel Mystery Oil to the intake system based on engine vacuum where it puts in more as the vacuum level falls and less when the engine develops good vacuum (only with spark ignition not diesels) would make better sense to me instead of putting it in the fuel but oh well. My dad had one of those inverse Marvel Mystery Oil things on his work truck. The harder you work the engine the less vacuum you have and the greater need for upper cylinder lubrication. Under high economy conditions it hardly added any at all. It was adjustable.

He flunked a California emissions test and had to burn off the "Treated" tank of fuel and run without the oil to pass emissions. He reported 16 good years with no engine problems and no particular loss of power with his Honda sedan at well over 200,000 miles.

Pat