Mig Welders

[pmsmechanic]

I'm posting this because I just may be missing out on something. I really don't get what the hype is about mig welders. Most times I've used one I end up being able to do a better job with a stick welder. This could be because of my inexperience with migs but I'm to the point of don't even show me one I'll stay with my trusty stick any day. The other day I tried to remove a broken off bolt out of aluminum with a mig. After four tries I said enough of this and I took the transmission home and got the bolt out after two tries with my stick welder. I just couldn't get enough penetration with the mig. My technique is to weld a washer onto the bolt and then a nut. I like to get the bolt hot enough to melt wax and let the wax run into the threads. I rarely get a bolt out the first time but I've never run into a broken bolt that I couldn't get out using this method.

Two advantages that I can see to a mig. I've welded stove pipe with one and that's difficult with a stick. Also the weld is cleaner and needs less cleaning up to paint.

So clue me in. What am I missing.

 

[Shield Arc]

All processes have there place. It's up to us to pick the correct process for the task at hand. In heavy civil, and marine construction, if you can't run a wire feeder, you don't stay long.

 

[Sodo]

I bet there is a lot of other welding that you don't do, because a stick can't do it (well), and it wouldn't occur to you that a MIG can. Pretty much all tools are that way, as you put more time into it you think of other uses For it. Aiming the wire for a precise tack is something much more difficult with stick. H

Agreed on the rusted stuck bolt - getting penetration right at the start (then quit ! ) is an application where you need a lot of heat quick, pretty much opposite of What a MIG does. However I've done what you described with a MIG and a washer. Also welding a nut on -thru the center, (while wishing I had a stick I could jam down in there).

Getting stuck bolts out by welding is for the experienced welder. Also burning a broken stud out with O/A ( but not in Alu! ).

 

[David Devuono]

While I have not yet moved from a hammer and nails to a air framing nailer, I have moved on from a stick to a Wirefeed welder. Still the ultimate welding these days seems to be a cross between MIG and Stick, where a stick is used with shielding gas (TIG)

 

[/pine]

So clue me in. What am I missing

I can only relate my own experience but a "cheater lens" solved most of my issues along with getting the wire feed speed/voltage correct for the job...

 

[/pine]

While I have not yet moved from a hammer and nails to a air framing nailer,...

A "palm nailer" is a cheap (about the same price as a quality framing hammer) step in the right direction...no special nails required...and they can double as an air hammer for some things...!

 

[swines]

MIG has a number of advantages:

1. The deposition rate is far higher than stick.
2. Shielded MIG gives much cleaner welds (as you've noted).
3. Spatter can be controlled better with a MIG.
4. You can weld thin sheet metal.
5. MIG welding can be faster than stick.

One of the problems people run into with MIG and complain about is lack of penetration on thick materials. That is generally caused by running small diameter wire at lower amperage values.

I often use .045 wire, and in some cases have used 1/16-inch wire with amperages at 250+ Amps. Big wire and high amperage gives all the penetration you need. At 280 Amps with 1/16 wire you can weld 1/2-inch steel in one pass.

You have to match the wire + amperage to the thickness of the material. Most home MIG machines are 220 Amps and less which is not conducive to welding thicker materials. You can weld thicker material but it takes good joint preparation and often requires multiple passes.

If you like stick and can make good welds with that process - then that's what you should use. They build Navy and commercial ships using MIG welders - I would hardly call that "hype."

 

[Sodo]

Still the ultimate welding these days seems to be a cross between MIG and Stick, where a stick is used with shielding gas (TIG)

TIG requires a lot of technique, lots of practice, expert assistance.
MIG is popular because it's easy and is well suited to common thickness of materials.

 

[LD1]

I have gotten out more broken bolts than I can count with my mig welder by welding a nut on.

My guess is you had too small of a MIG machine, Or just ran it too cold.

I dont imagine the first time you ever stick welded anything was a good weld. It is a difference process with its own pros and cons, and requires learning and practice like everything else.

 

[rankrank1]

As have been pointed out by others, Every welding process has its place:

Stick is not the easiest to learn from a skill set perspective but sounds like you already have that problem solved. Even a $100 230 volt used buzzbox welder can rule on metal 1/8" thick and thicker steel. Rusty metal no problem. Welding outdoors in the wind no problem. No consumables to buy either. You can even weld 16 gauge (1/16") with stick if you are real good. Metal thinner than 1/16" thick though and the stick process is just not well suited regardless of how expensive your stick machine is.

Inexpensive migs ($300 to $1000) rule on metal less than 1/16" thick down to about 24 to 26 gauge thick. Sure they can weld thicker as you spend more money for the welder the thicker steel you can weld. Sure mig is faster, but liners, tips, bottles, and shielding gas do add up as far as costs go in making that weld. Mig not so great outdoors and horrible on rusty metal. Mig is much easier to learn skillset, but it is also easy for a newb to make a beatifual looking weld that really is nothing more than a caulking bead strengthwise with mig IMOP.

Wanna weld razor blade thickness metal together then that is the territory of tig.

There are no free lunches in welding (although I thick stick is as close as it gets to one). It is all in how much you wanna spend to weld. Faster processes make fiscal sense for businesses where time is money and wage savings can offset the more expensive welding processes in cost savings. Backyard hobbyist: Well the more expensive welding processes take much longer to pay back dollars wise.

For a minimal cash investment: Nothing covers more bases than an $75-100 used AC 230 volt stick welder and a decent quality $350 115 volt mig welder. Use the mig on thin sheetmetal less than 1/8" thick and use the stick on all 1/8" and thicker stuff. If funds allow then go AC/DC on the 230 volt stick welder and 230 volt on the mig but the costs go up doing this, but you have more overlap in each machines capability too.