MIG welding....push or pull

[Chain Bender]

Have a Hobart Handler 140. Never have been as good with it as I am with a stick, but then again, twice nothing is still nothing!

I am bound and deterimined to use this machine. I'm adding on to a set of ramps for my tractor hauler. Tractor is short wheel based, ramp angle is a little steeper than I like. Yesterday I was trying to off-load the B3200 with a 5' bush hog on it and it put it such a bind when the wheel on the bush hog hit the ground that it actually lifted the back wheels of the tractor up just enough than they both slid off the ramps to the right. Was no way to get the rear wheels back up on the trailer, so I used some 2X12's to walk the front wheels off the trailer.

That should not have happened. I studied the linkage on the top link and it seemed to have been put on backwards. I turned it around to give 180 degrees of rotation and tested the flex in the bush hog when put in a bind such as loading/unloading and it looked a lot better.

HOWEVER, I still want to add about 18" of length to the ramps. Going to get some angle iron this morning.

2X3X3/16" for main frame and 2X2X.125 for treads and supports.

Need some pointers on my welder. Have .030 and .035 wire. Plenty of argon and plenty of time. (I alos have plenty of rods as well) Will I get better results with a push or pull method?

Any advice will be appreciated.

 

[Arbo]

I suggest that you do some practicing before welding on your ramps. With that said, a simple reminder is..."When you have slag, drag.

You don't say whether you are running solid wire with gas or flux core wire. If it is solid wire with gas, you either want 75/25 AR/CO2 mix or pure CO2. If flux core, you will not be using any gas. Remember that the polarity needs to be changed for the type of wire you are using. Any more questions, post up.

 

[slowzuki]

You are going to need the welder maxed out nearly for 2 pieces of 3/16 if that is the welder I think it is, clean up the joint before you weld, it isn't forgiving to dirt like stick. Set the proper gap as well, us home welders with stick tend to crank up the amps and make it work but MIG just won't penetrate if you don't set up the weld right.

I prefer pulling, as I'm used to stick and can see the puddle better doing bodywork. Push delivers slightly better penetration but I find it can cause to much wire burnback on higher amp settings.

 

[sizzami]

you will find that , pushing and pulling have thier places typically I try to push because it does make a better weld but the heat gained by pushing is often offset by the change in distance between contact tip and work next to amperage setting , this is the only way to adjust the heat you are applying , no offense to anyone , but less skilled welders tend to pull because it allows them to ride the nozzle , if you are holding your gun at the correct angle the heat difference is nominal because the angle is very slight .

 

[IslandTractor]

I am not a skilled welder but I find pull much easier than push. The main reason is that I can see the puddle much more easily. I appreciate the slight potential advantage of push but for someone who doesn't weld much pull is the way to go.

 

[FastPauly]

Something else to keep in mind if you are going to be welding outdoors using bare wire/shielding gas. Make sure there is no wind blowing.....a small breeze can have a major impact on the weld due to the shielding gas being blown away. I experienced this problem on one of my projects....it was one of those gusty, wind swirling days.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Either is ok...but it will depend upon the desired results. If you want deeper penetration, pull. If you want shallower, wider penetration, push.

 

[Arbo]

Either is ok...but it will depend upon the desired results. If you want deeper penetration, pull. If you want shallower, wider penetration, push.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE ADVISE, AT LEAST MAKE IT GOOD ADVISE.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Arbo,
It is good advice. There are no hard fast rules about pulling or pushing. Some schools teach one method, while others teach another...In reality both styles will produce different results. Pulling results in deeper penetration, with a narrower bead profile. Pushing results in shallower penetration, with a wider bead profile. The employment of either and knowing when to use it will come with experience.

I would suggest if you are going to make a comment, make it a good comment.:thumbsup:

 

[ZLineFabrication]

"Pulling results in deeper penetration, with a narrower bead profile. Pushing results in shallower penetration, with a wider bead profile. The employment of either and knowing when to use it will come with experience."

This



run the .035 solid w gas, no wind. run a 10% mix and set the reg at about 30-32.

pull trigger and GO.

tip: watch the puddle, NOT the arc

Oh Yeah....Dont be afraid of getting burned, you WILL get burned at some point.

 

[Shield Arc]

Personally I don't get to caught up in which way to weld, I do what ever the puddle requires. unless I know I'm heading into arc blow territory, then I'll start in it, and work my way out.

Some good information!


Miller - MIG Welding Tips - Intro

 

[Chain Bender]

Thanks guys for all the input(s). In this machine I use .023, .030 and .035 solid wire. The mix is 75/25. I have a smaller fulx core machine but I know it won't get near hot enough. I will be welding inside a barn closed in on 3 sides so the wind should not be a problem. I usually run around 30 psi. Polarity is set according to chart inside the flip up door.

Guess I need to clean and clamp some scrap together and figure out how hot and how fast a wire feed I should be using. If all else fails I'll use my little stick welder. I know it will do the job. Just didn't want to have to keep changing rods every few seconds.

Will let you know how I do.

thanks again to all for your input.

 

[sizzami]

either way as you improve you will instinctively learn to produce the desired bead either way by changing the infinitely more important factors , travel speed and distance between contact tip and work , even pattern of travel has more bearing on strenght than does direction and all the stating of rules are ridiculous I submit that pushing gets better penetration on material that is dirty since it tends to burn away impurities before the puddle arrives.
my father said ," those who cant do teach, and those who cant do either sell."

 

[crazyal]

You can weld from both sides and you can open the weld up a little with a grinder. As far as pushing or pulling, I usually let the job decide. If it's all flat welding then I do what ever feels comfortable. But often the job kind of makes the choice.

For example if you are welding two pieces of angle at 90 on the inside then starting in the middle and working out to the edges could build up too much heat in when you get to the edge you may melt the steel away. If you've decided to push or pull then you will have made the choice between starting at the edge or starting at the middle.

 

[Chain Bender]

As I have aged I have aquired two definite problems with my welding abilities. First problem is eye sight. I wear 2.00 and 2.25 reading glasses. I wear them when I weld. Even then when I use a #9 setting on my auto-darkening shield I have trouble seeing what the weld is doing or where I'm headed with the weld. If I weld outside in the bright daylight I do better, but then I have to position myself and my stock so the sun doesn't glare into my face or come in behind my shield.

Problem #2 is my right hand shakes more and more. Sometimes I get a twitch in my hand that jumps so bad I loose the arc on a rod.

Sounds like I'm making a lot of excuses, but for a guy of limited skills to start with...........

I've always been a "piddler". I like to bend nails, strip threads, loose intricate pieces of high tech stuff, shoot holes in pieces of steel at 600+ yards............

I hate to buy something I can make and I hate to pay someone to do something I think(?) I can do as well myself. Having said that, I'm not as good once as I was once

Guys, again thanks for all your input and I can assure you if the sun comes up tomorrow I'm gonna fire up the Hobart and get some splatter between my toes.

C' Bender

 

[escavader]

Ihave the same machine,ive tryed all the wires and now use .035 for every thing.push ,pull do whatever but the number one thing is relax and be comfortable.Ialways used a stick,but ill admit the HOBART makes some pretty welds
ALAN

 

[Shield Arc]

As I have aged I have aquired two definite problems with my welding abilities. First problem is eye sight. I wear 2.00 and 2.25 reading glasses. I wear them when I weld. Even then when I use a #9 setting on my auto-darkening shield I have trouble seeing what the weld is doing or where I'm headed with the weld. If I weld outside in the bright daylight I do better, but then I have to position myself and my stock so the sun doesn't glare into my face or come in behind my shield.

Problem #2 is my right hand shakes more and more. Sometimes I get a twitch in my hand that jumps so bad I loose the arc on a rod.

Having said that, I'm not as good once as I was once

Ummm, I thought I was reading my biography.

 

[yomax4]

Simply Push Hard Wire and Metal Core..Pull everything else..

 

[tractorboy5500]

I am not a pro at welding, I have a miller matic 180 solid wire and use mix gas, had it for 3 years now, I just bought a plasma cutter, havent got to use it yet because i work oversea's. But from reading all of this thread it will help me alot, I see some people perfer different ways of doing things, but I will try different things just because others either like it or perfer it better, so I will give them all a try, I know it wont be perfect the first time but I will keep trying until it comes out like it should, its all about learning and wanting to learn. Keep up the good advice everyone, and thanks

 

[jmz1]

Simply Push Hard Wire and Metal Core..Pull everything else..

Not true.

Personally I don't get to caught up in which way to weld, I do what ever the puddle requires. unless I know I'm heading into arc blow territory, then I'll start in it, and work my way out.

True. If you ever watch an automatic welder , what is the position of the wire? ............................. Vertical

I always did whatever it took to get the best weld. I got so burned out at welding for a living I statred as a janitor just to get my foot in the door at the electric co-op