Mig Welding..

[crabjoe]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I figure this might be the place to ask because it's kind of a build question.

After seeing all these posts with everyone building things, I'm getting the itch too. My biggest problem with this is that it seems welding will be a requirement and I don't have a welder.

With no welder, I figure I'd better get one. Fact is, I've always wanted one over the years, but I never had a need for one. Well, now that I really want one, do you think a wimpy MIG welder will be fine?

I'm figuring, I won't be doing many welds over 1/4" and Lincoln sells the Weld Pak 3200HD MIG/Flux core welder (advertised to well to 5/16") at Home Depot. And for a beginner, is there really any need to get something more powerful?

Thanks all!!

 

[MJPetersen]

In a bit of quick reading I see that in its class that the little Lincoln is not bad. However, if most of your welding is going to be on say 1/4 it may not have enough duty cycle. At 90 amps its duty cycle is only 20%. What that means is that the machine will overheat if you weld for more than 2 minutes out of every 10 minutes at 90 amps. now if you are only doing short welds, fiddling getting another piece into position, another short weld, etc then it may be just fine. You get a lot more duty cycle when you go to a 220 volt machine.

Here is a link to a welding forum where they talk about this welder specifically. Lincoln Weld-Pak 3200HD - Weld Talk Message Boards
and a link to the manual for the Lincoln. http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/navigator/im/im759.pdf

This welder may be a good test machine to see if you really like this kind of thing. If you do you will be looking soon to "upgrade," but if not then you do not have too much invested into a hobby that is not for you. That is the way I would look at it.

Mike

 

[BusaRider]

For casual use and limited thickness goods a 110 welder will work fine. The duty cycle isn't long but you can take breaks. Personally, I wouldn't bother with a flux welder, but would go gas. The cost is worth it.

For the record I have a Lincoln 135+, a Lincoln 185+, and a miller 255 (tig). I love my 185 (220V) and use it most of the time, but the 135+ is a great machine also. Its also portable and can be used anywhere you can find a plug.

If you are immune to the upgrade bug, get a small 110 and send out big jobs. If you are like myself and most people I know, get a 220 gas machine (Lincoln, Miller etc) and be done with it. That way you wont be buying 3 or 4 welders in the future.

Another thing to look at. Where can you buy disposables locally? Are they open on the days that you weld the most? IE weekends for a hobbyist.

Last, Ask yourself what your eyes are worth to you. Spend for a helmet accordingly.

 

[Superduper]

Well, using the amp recommendation calculator on Miller's website, it looks like at the rated capacity of 135 amps @ 20% duty cycle is good for 16-18 guage steel using shielded gas welding. If using flux cored wire, 3/32" is right about at the max (110-125) and 1/8" slightly exceeds the capacity of this welder (140-155). This based upon the units stated amp range of 25-135amps.

The 5/16" capacity for this welder is probably accomplished via flux cored wires and multiple passes. According to Miller's website, the recommended amp range for 5/16" using standard gas shielded process is 200-210 amps.

Even if the welder is capable of 135 amps, it's duty cycle is only 20% @ 90 amps. At 135 amps, it might be less than 10% duty cycle. At that rate, you might be stitching 1/2" bead at a time before it shuts down to cool and you might find your experience frustrating.

If you believe Miller's recommendations, then this welder is probably best for sheet metal. If you buy this, you may want to consider supplementing a good 220v stick welder to your arsenal for the heavier stuff. Mig welders in the 200 amp plus range (with respectible duty cycles) are very expensive.

 

[RonMar]

I use a Lincoln Weld Pack and have for many many years. I do rarely have need for anything above 1/4" though. On the larger projects, the duty cycle is a limitation, but with planning, you can layout a work routine to deal with this limiting factor. Weld a bit, got cut on another part, go grind/cleanup, go back and weld a bit. Setting and welding steadilly is also pretty tedious, and if not done correctly can lead to horribly distorted structures. As for wimpy, I have never had one of it's welds fail. I have had structures fail, but not due to or at the welds. I do take great care in my planning and design though and that is most of the battle in a good project.

I agree that you should get one that can do gas. Flux core is pretty handy, and is what I use mostly. the larger wire diameter is what gets you the higher current for thicker steel. The ability to use gas, gets the smaller wire and thinner metal capability as well as doing other metals. I just did some stainless welding for my son the other night on a turbocharger manifold...

I always thought I would get a stick welder for the larger stuff, but I have yet to have the need and the small MIG has done everything I have asked of it.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

...I really want one, do you think a wimpy MIG welder will be fine?

... And for a beginner, is there really any need to get something more powerful?

You've gotten some good advice in the responses so far. I'm not going to stake any claim to being an expert, or even a proficient, weldor. I will say that I have a Miller TB 235 AC/DC stick welder and a Millermatic 185. I just donated my first MIG machine (110v 80 amp) to my church.

When you consider that a halfway decent 220v MIG welder along with gas bottle, regulator, protective equipment, and other incidentals won't leave any change from a $1000 bill, you may very well want to get a small 110v machine to use to get your feet wet and find out if you want to stay with it. If you later decide that you want to upgrade, most all of the accessory stuff will carryover to the larger machine.

Primarily, think of the small 110v welder as a sheet metal machine. However, with the proper joint prep and multipass welding, you could weld a battleship together with it. But you sure won't do it in a hurry.

I'd also suggest - maybe even before buying the equipment - to check out any vo-tech welding classes that might be available in your area or maybe get some one-on-one with a friend/acquaintance who has both a welder and a thirst.

 

[sandman2234]

One thing to note, as you didn't say what type of experience you had actually welding, is that a MIG welder is easier to learn that a stick welder, but there are drawbacks. A stick weld may look like heck and be a good weld, but from my experience there is more of a chance that a MIG weld looks good and isn't. If you are going to learn to weld once you acquire this welder, take the time to practice and actually tear the welds apart to see just how well they are holding. Other than that, good luck with it.
David from jax

 

[bobodu]

Buy a $100 garage sale stick and learn to use it. None of that stopping/starting/waiting nonsense.I've heard too many horror stories about over building with the little hot glue guns and mine sits collecting dust unless I'm fixing exhaust systems.

 

[itn]

i've got a lincoln 140c mig. its 110v. you can use gas or flux core. i've done several projects and the duty cycle time has never been an issue. as long as you have a grinder anything too thick can be v ground to an acceptable thickness and then welded with a few passes. its a nice welder for being portable and i can switch to the flux core wire for outdoor fixes when its breezy.

 

[charlz]

I think arc is good to learn with as you have time to watch the puddle etc. With a MIG I think you are better off with a 220v machine unless you are only welding really small stuff. Better to have the power and not need it then to need it and not have it Most compact tractor stuff seems to have 3/8 steel in it somewhere that needs to be welded.

Whatever way you decide to go watch Craigslist for a bit and see if something comes up. I waited over a year for a 220v MIG to show up and then when the economy started to tank they started popping up almost daily.

 

[chumly2071]

Not knowing what your budget is, but knowing you want to do at least some structural work building tractor accessories, I'd limit the bottom of my mig list to the 180ish size from Miller/Hobart or Lincoln. Anything less, even with the weld prep and multiple passes just won't cut it for 3/16"-1/4" steel. If you don't plan a lot of sheet gauge stuff, the advice on a stick power source is very good. there isn't a lot you can't weld with the numerous electrode types/sizes available. learning stick will never be a waste of time.

If buying a mig new, look closely at local support as far as service and consumables. Online pricing sometimes drives you to places like Indiana Oxygen on ebay, but give your local welding supply place a shot at price matching. they might surprise you.

one other thing worth mentioning is the units sold at the box stores are not always the same internally as the units to be had at the welding supply place. some features and "robustness" may be altered to match the price point the box stores are trying to reach.

if starting out with a limited budget, I'd opt for a good ac/dc stick machine for the heavy stuff and learning opportunity, and a 140 class mig machine for sheet metal and similar. you should be able to locate these used, and local, for a good deal if you are patient and do some searching.

my personal fleet includes a Miller 130 and 210 mig, and a Lincoln square wave pro 175 tig.

several posts of this nature have been gone over a bunch of times on the miller welding forum, and on the forums at shopfloortalk.com. you might do some searhes on both sites for additional information.

HTH
Chad-

 

[AlanB]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I figure this might be the place to ask because it's kind of a build question.

After seeing all these posts with everyone building things, I'm getting the itch too. My biggest problem with this is that it seems welding will be a requirement and I don't have a welder.

With no welder, I figure I'd better get one. Fact is, I've always wanted one over the years, but I never had a need for one. Well, now that I really want one, do you think a wimpy MIG welder will be fine?

I'm figuring, I won't be doing many welds over 1/4" and Lincoln sells the Weld Pak 3200HD MIG/Flux core welder (advertised to well to 5/16") at Home Depot. And for a beginner, is there really any need to get something more powerful?

Thanks all!!

Usually I see the advice already, and I may have just missed it, but here is my 2 cents.

Take $100 of your money (you will be spending more) but take that first $100 and apply it too education. First choice would be a local vo-tech or trade school if one is available. Second choice is find a guy that is doing the type work (welding) that you want too do and work with him. A couple times a year I have folks into my shop and they learn welding.

If you want to spend more money, but get better quicker results, go to Lincoln, Hobart or Miller, they all have EXCELLENT schools, go do a one week intro to welding technologies type class where they will run through all sorts of stuff.

While it is true, you can get books, tapes, video's etc. to learn, get a stick and start practicing (and yes, no matter how you learn, 95% is practice) it just goes so much smoother if you have someone leaning over your shoulder giving you pointers along the way.

So, that was the long answer.

As to the direct point of your question, yes, that is a fine welder and easy to learn on. Make sure you stay within the limits of the machine, which imo are less then data plate limits for the average (and especially novice) welder and then complement that machine with a quality AC buzz box when one shows up used.

 

[crabjoe]

Thanks for all the responses and I think I can answer some of the questions I've seen.

1st, I have ZERO experiance welding. I've seen it done, but never done it myself.

2nd, I had a friend that works at a machine shop. He's telling me to get a stick welder and he would teach me how to stick weld. He also told me that to start, a MIG is better, especailly for thin metals. Only problem is, he says he never MIG welds, so he can't really teach me with one. After what he told me, I figured, I'd get a MIG and if I need something heavy done, I'd just take it over to him.

I figure the 120V MIG would do well for adding things like hooks or back plates. Plus, would I need anything more for some repairs on vehicles? I'd like to build myself a set of Rockrails for my Jeep.

Almost forgot. Taking a class is out of the question. I've already missed it at the local Community College and they wanted close to $300 to take the class. Shoot, I can get a 120V MIG welder for around $400.

Thanks.

 

[AlanB]

Thanks for all the responses and I think I can answer some of the questions I've seen.

1st, I have ZERO experiance welding. I've seen it done, but never done it myself.

2nd, I had a friend that works at a machine shop. He's telling me to get a stick welder and he would teach me how to stick weld. He also told me that to start, a MIG is better, especailly for thin metals. Only problem is, he says he never MIG welds, so he can't really teach me with one. After what he told me, I figured, I'd get a MIG and if I need something heavy done, I'd just take it over to him.

I figure the 120V MIG would do well for adding things like hooks or back plates. Plus, would I need anything more for some repairs on vehicles? I'd like to build myself a set of Rockrails for my Jeep.

Thanks.

All the work you just described, I would reach for my Millermatic 250 (much bigger MIG then you are looking at) or a stick.

You want to weld the body panels on your jeep, little mig is great, you want to weld up some light gauge 1" tubing, you are jamming you have the right machine.

Hooks? I am guessing 1/2" thick or better? Backplates, I am assuming it would be like 3 point mount peices 1/4" or heavier, Rock rails, the ones I have done have been really heavy to take the abuse, those are out of the range of the welder that you are looking at.

That said, I have a Miller Matic 135 (similar to what you are looking at) and I would have to say that is the most used welder in my shop. Sheetmetal and odds and ends around the place it just get's used all the time.

Let me also inject here, before someone else jumps in and starts talking about multipass, or O/A welding etc. etc. There are a zillion other ways of doing what you are looking at, and a good welder can make that little machine do lots with proper weld prep, preheating, and an expert hand.

All that too the side, you want a welder of sufficient umph to do what you need with a minimum of hassle, and if the projects you described above are what you are looking at day to day, I would say you are looking at the wrong machine.

Repeating myself.

Go to a class, run the different machines for yourself, with someone showing you the differences. You will gain a lot of insight just seeing the results.

 

[Nightowl66]

I bought a used stick and learned how to weld myself. I read a book and asked a few questions to a coworker who could weld. I then bought a small wire welder from TSC when I built a go kart out of thinner material than I couldn't weld with the stick.
I use the stick 95% of the time. usually when I am welding something for the Kubota or attatchments, it is heavier metal and I need the stick.

 

[wushaw]

I agree with AlanB, your list of to do things are for a 220v class machine.

With a 220v mig you can still do what a 115v machine can do.

 

[bobodu]

Now just listen to yourself...
If your buddy is gonna teach you to stick...you're gonna know 90% of what you need to know!! Most classes start by teaching you stick.
You just never know when you're gonna want to weld something substantial. Once you start sparking,you're gonna find lots of things to stick together and you're gonna run outta welder quick with a little 110v unit....ask me how I know if you must. As far as what you can do with a MIG verses stick....well I can buy little bitty coat hanger rod and weld the exhaust or I can buy great big honking rod and weld up loader buckets. I don't run outta leads and have to pull the welder around either.Never run outta gas on Sunday,never have to unkink a wire feed or screw with a fouled nozzle.
Hooks and back plates? Ask your buddy about "penetration".

 

[whiteh2o]

I stick welded in high school shop...years and years ago (too many). I just acquired an ac/dc 230v stick welder from Craig's list for 150 dollars. It's an old Craftsman. Bought a helmet, gloves, some rod, scrap steel, a cheap Harbor F. cut off saw and away I went at it. Took a few evenings out in the garage, but, I can lay a nice bead now. It just takes practice. The only problem I still have is burning trough small material (1/8 and less) because the metal gets too hot through a 3 inch pass before I get through practicing. I reduce the amps and don't seem to get enough penetration. Most of the penetration is real good (too much). Ha. I'll get it. The other thing is if the weld looks crappy, grind it off and weld it again. I'm sure the pros have never done that...ha

I also just bought a Lincoln 230v 180C on sale. I used to wire feed years ago as well. I have yet to use it since its being shipped. I went in half with a buddy that does it for a living because he wants to weld aluminum.

I think each welder has its place and if you don't want to spend thousands on a wire feed, pick up a used (make sure it has DC) stick welder and practice. I assure you I can get penetration on the stick. The wire feed will be used for lighter work IMHO.

That being said, if I was going to need 12K d-rings with 7018 welded on my car hauler for transport, I would be buying lunch for my friends that do it for a living. If something breaks on one of my implements or I want to build something that attaches to the tractor that won't cause any harm (me or anyone) I'll weld it myself and you can too. My other half is interested in some metal art projects and stick is not the animal for that.

One thing I found with stick is that I cut the electrodes in half so they are shorter to work with on small material. It made it easier for me to practice.

I'm no expert by any means, but, it's my .02.

 

[bobodu]

When welding small stuff with stick,make a short weld...let it cool off just enough so you can't see it though the helmet...two seconds maybe..touch it again...cool etc.
I just filled a thumbnail sized burn through on 1/16 tube using 3/32 rod at 75 amps.

 

[Willis Fecon Bushhogging]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but I figure this might be the place to ask because it's kind of a build question.

After seeing all these posts with everyone building things, I'm getting the itch too. My biggest problem with this is that it seems welding will be a requirement and I don't have a welder.
Thanks all!!

I would buy a Lincoln or ??? 225amp, 220V stick welder and learn how to weld. You will have the ampere to weld most things, you will need. This is the way I learned, never had a class, but some good advice from friends and I graduated from the school of hard knocks (#1 in my class) After you learn how to weld, buy yourself a 220V mig and I think it might be easier to learn the mig thingee. Just my 2 cents worth