Mike Vick's dogs, where are they now?

[Sigarms]

Tallyho8

No sarcasim intended, a very good post, and honestly, I felt the exact same way you did before the AS Terrier came into our home.

Four years ago, as mentioned, I would of agreed with you 100%. Now, since actually having first hand experience working to a limited extent with a "bully breed", I'd probably agree 80%.

My comments are not aimed at anyone in particular, but just as an observation by someone who has owned, bred, hunted with, competed with and trained dogs of many breeds for over 50 years.

Out of all those breeds that you worked with, were any a "bully breed" such as an American Pit Bull Terrier or an AS Terrier, and if the answer is yes, what was your personal experience with the breed? By no means a "baited" question, just looking for sincere feedback from first had experience working with that type of breed. Most dog owners who I consider "repsonsible" and who have had no issues working with the breed seem to have nothing but high praises. That said, care must be taken in raising the breed.

If a dog is bred to fight, the most natural thing for him to do is to ?????

Keep in mind, the breeding is for fighting with other dogs, not humans. Since this breeding took place many years before anyone of was born, hard to change that fact now. What we can do however is train people on how to actually raise this type of breed. However, we go again back to the pet owners responsibility.

Do the drug dealers really keep this breed around as a pet for their children?

I'm guessing that drug dealers keep this breed around for intimidation. Some actually train aggressive behavoir towards humans. Needless to say, these people do not need to legally own a dog.

Then you probably have the "cool" factor for young men in an urban enviroment.

Then you have people who want a dog for protection only.

The question remains, what happend to all of the other agressive breeds. Early 80's, our neighbor had a doberman ("Max" was his name, a great dog unless you owned a cat). As mentioned before, I remember when it wasn't the "pit bull" that was the newspapers "darlings" for mauling people, but rotties and dobies (and even a couple of german sheperds). Have these statistics changed per the breed and attacks? Was there a decrease in the attacks by other agressive breeds, and if so, why?

Per LMTC's link from the Center for Disease Control

"Although fatal attacks on humans appear to be a breed-speciffic problem (pit bullt-type dogs and Rottweillers), other breeds may bite and cause fatalities at higher rates"

Also

"Studies indicate that pit bll-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF reported during the 12 year period from 1981 through 1992, and Rottweillers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996"

The question I have is why the increase with Rotties?

When I first moved down to NC, my roomate was a female in the local sheriffs department. She owned a Rottie. The two years I was with her, from my experience, the only harm that Rottie would do harm is by trying to lay on you to snuggle.

Then again, I consider myself a "dog person", and to some extent through my experiences with dogs, they can sniff fear.

I would also be curious how the report LMTC linked would of read if it had broken down the pit bull-type breeds into breed speciffic. As mentioned, much easier to say pit bull and make a general classification.

Let me reword the phrase: "There are no bad dogs, just bad breeders."

Here, Bird is partially correct. I do value the life of a bad breeder less than perhaps some of you (not all breed specific, but yes in the case of puppy mills). I'm not to fond of drug dealers, rapist and murderers as well. Yet another reason why I could be a better Christian.

I can assure you, I shudder when I read in the local dime paper people that are selling "AKC" pit bull pups for $250. Do these people care where these dogs go to? I can answer that with a no. I actually called some of the numbers to see what type of "process" they have to sell the dog. What I've found from my experience is that if money is the only thing a breeded wants, chances are very high they are not a good breeder.

With proper breeding, after many generations, a dog that was bred for one purpose could eventually be bred for a different purpose but if others were still breeding that dog for its original purpose than how would someone who came across one of these dogs know which breeding he was or what he was likely to someday do?

That is part of the issue.

Keep in mind, I had already stated that in the case of Mr. Vicks dogs, my first thought is that they should of been put down.

That said, do you realize that you can increase the chances of aggression in ANY dog by chaining it 24/7/365? Make this dog a bully breed and you could be playing with Nitro, not dynamite. Yet people who have neither the time or perhaps money still keep their dogs this way.

There is no law in the United States to stop anyone from breeding fighting dogs, but for the sake of these dogs and many innocent maimed people, I wish there was.

I agree with you 100%. There should also be lead laws as well as a host of other laws for irresponsible pet ownership.

Let me ask you this. Say all the "put bull" terrier breeds become against the law to breed and in due time, the "pit bull" as we know it no longer exists. What happens to the next agressive breed that starts making the papers for killing? Do we not allow people to own Dobermans or Rottweillers, or any other larger agressive breed?

BTW, his "house" dogs are a small terrier and a chihuahua.

This little guy came in the other day. The pic may not show it, but he does have chuhuahua in him. Finding him a home will be easy. My point is that although I do think smaller dog breeds do have a higher disposition for aggression, I don't hold the past actions of other dogs responsibile for the way I'd treat this guy. However, with ANY dog, caution must be shown to some extent. At this point in time however, this guy is harmless

 

[J_J]

There are bad dogs, and there are bad kids, and some adults are just plain mean, and that is a factof life.

No one should ever think that their kid, animal or spouse would ever do [ that ], for that is just a dam* lie. It could happen anywhere at anytime.

Why is this post going on and on? Everybody knows the facts. The one poster that swears that his dogs would never do that needs to quit stirring up the situation. This will go on forever if you all keep replying.

 

[tallyho8]

Tallyho8 Out of all those breeds that you worked with, were any a "bully breed" such as an American Pit Bull Terrier or an AS Terrier, and if the answer is yes, what was your personal experience with the breed? By no means a "baited" question, just looking for sincere feedback from first had experience working with that type of breed. Most dog owners who I consider "responsible" and who have had no issues working with the breed seem to have nothing but high praises. That said, care must be taken in raising the breed.

My experiences with Pit Bulls are: I got a pit bull mix stray when I was 12 years old in 1957. We had no leash laws at that time and I lived in the suburbs and there were many dogs roaming the streets. I never leashed or fenced him, he was free to roam. He was intelligent and easy to teach basic commands. I had a paper route and delivered papers on a bike and was frequently chased by loose dogs. Frisky started following me on my route and soon learned the route and lead the way clearing my path of roaming dogs by intimidation, never by fighting. He usually stayed in our yard but did on occasion, leave the yard and bark at a stranger using the sidewalk. He never bit anyone that I was aware of. I had him till after I got married and he was one of my all-time favorite dogs.

In 2002 I was given a 1 year old pit bull by a man who was sent to jail. This dog had been chained all his life and he had intended on training him for fighting. I kept this dog in my kennel or on a leash when walking or training him. He was quick to learn and extremely friendly to everyone. I never heard him growl or saw him act aggressive in any way. After raising dogs for 50 years, I have learned to trust my gut instinct about dogs and this instinct has proved itself to be true many times. After having this dog a little over a month, my gut instinct told me that he was dynamite waiting to explode and I gave him to a junk yard owner to run loose in his junk yard as a guard dog. I would be devastated if one of my dogs were to kill or maim another person or their pet and did not feel that dog was safe enough to keep.

In 2006 I had to put up 800' of fence across one side of my yard to keep out my neighbors German Shepherd and Golden Retriever which came into my yard and killed 3 of my son's cats on 3 different occasions. Rather than starting a neighborhood rivalry that could last a lifetime by pressing charges against his dogs and having them put down, I felt it in my best interest to put up the fence to prevent future occurrences. If it had been one of my horses instead I am sure I would have taken other actions.

Why is this post going on and on? Everybody knows the facts. The one poster that swears that his dogs would never do that needs to quit stirring up the situation. This will go on forever if you all keep replying.

This post is a discussion about dogs and someone may learn something from it. There is no need to censor, end or delete a post that you object to. It is easy enough to skip reading the posts that do not interest you.

 

[J_J]

My experiences with Pit Bulls are: I got a pit bull mix stray when I was 12 years old in 1957. We had no leash laws at that time and I lived in the suburbs and there were many dogs roaming the streets. I never leashed or fenced him, he was free to roam. He was intelligent and easy to teach basic commands. I had a paper route and delivered papers on a bike and was frequently chased by loose dogs. Frisky started following me on my route and soon learned the route and lead the way clearing my path of roaming dogs by intimidation, never by fighting. He usually stayed in our yard but did on occasion, leave the yard and bark at a stranger using the sidewalk. He never bit anyone that I was aware of. I had him till after I got married and he was one of my all-time favorite dogs.

In 2002 I was given a 1 year old pit bull by a man who was sent to jail. This dog had been chained all his life and he had intended on training him for fighting. I kept this dog in my kennel or on a leash when walking or training him. He was quick to learn and extremely friendly to everyone. I never heard him growl or saw him act aggressive in any way. After raising dogs for 50 years, I have learned to trust my gut instinct about dogs and this instinct has proved itself to be true many times. After having this dog a little over a month, my gut instinct told me that he was dynamite waiting to explode and I gave him to a junk yard owner to run loose in his junk yard as a guard dog. I would be devastated if one of my dogs were to kill or maim another person or their pet and did not feel that dog was safe enough to keep.

In 2006 I had to put up 800' of fence across one side of my yard to keep out my neighbors German Shepherd and Golden Retriever which came into my yard and killed 3 of my son's cats on 3 different occasions. Rather than starting a neighborhood rivalry that could last a lifetime by pressing charges against his dogs and having them put down, I felt it in my best interest to put up the fence to prevent future occurrences. If it had been one of my horses instead I am sure I would have taken other actions.






This post is a discussion about dogs and someone may learn something from it. There is no need to censor, end or delete a post that you object to. It is easy enough to skip reading the posts that do not interest you.

I believe that most people do know all the facts. You will never convince the masses about how kind and gentle they are. I don't care if you have them, but if something were to happen to me or mine concerning the subject, or any animal, something bad would happen. Hel*, you can't even control humans, and they are supposed to be smarter.

 

[Sigarms]

Tallyho8

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question.

The dog you took in during 2002 is probably something I wouldn't of done myself.

You also seemed to show more restraint that I might of had in 2006 with the issues of your sons cats.

Nice to know what you thought of with your first "pit bull" with a man of your experience with animals.

Likewise, before we brought that Staffshire Terrier into our home, we did research on the breed and talked with those we considered responsible pet owners on the breed to get their opinions. Seems they have the same opinion as you did.

Funny, all of those people we talked to didn't live in section 8 housing.

 

[Sigarms]

I believe that most people do know all the facts

Could you please tell me what the facts are other than most opinions here formed from people reading the newspaper?

One thought that does come to mind is that some of the opinions here reminds me a little bit of some anti gun forums where the people who know nothing about firearms, quotes newspaper articles on how someone killed mulitple people with a firearm, and that's a good enough reason to make firearm ownership illegal.

Sorry, but I do see a analogy between dog ownership and firearms ownership in more ways than one.

Fact is, I agree with most people who have responded to this topic.

My premise is that ANY dog, given proper supervision, training, care, love and socialization will decrease the chances of that dog biting someone, and that the younger the dog is when first entered into the care I've listed above with all known past experiences in training, you decrease the odds of aggression towards humans.

LMTC was the only one who went out of his way to post information on the subject other than a newspaper article where someone was killed by a pit bull or "pit bull type" dog.

Has anyone actually read it? (on dog bite-related fatalities)

I had, some time ago.

LMTC does only quote the stats on the kills per breed, however, the article does address one issue that he didn't mention per those stats (forgetting most of my stat classes, it was a still question I had when I first came across the article)

"The denomiantor of a dog bree-speciffic human DBRF rate requires reliable breed-speciffic population data. Unfortunately, such data are not currently available."

Interesting as well that the report didn't (and couldn't for reasons listed) break down the bully breed group and just had it listed as "pit bull-tye".

I also found this interesting if you didn't read it

"several interesting factors affect a dog's preopensity to bite." (which they list, however if you don't want to read the report yourself, not sure what good posting it here will do).

Did anyone find the numbers from the Pinckney and Kennedy study interesting? Sorry, had to scratch my head when the Dachshund was listed.

You will never convince the masses

You could make that comment on many subjects/topics.

That said, as I've gotten older, I find that having a fear based response when trying to understand a subject dosen't accomplish much.

"A mind is like a parachute, it only works when open".

This post is a discussion about dogs and someone may learn something from it. There is no need to censor, end or delete a post that you object to. It is easy enough to skip reading the posts that do not interest you.

One reason why I actually bother. People may be surprised to know that although I may be pig headed, my opinion can change (there is a difference between opinion and faith). However, if you make a statement, I don't ask a question in response to "twist things", but to try and search for the truth (whatever that may be). To try and understand, you must also know the details of the subject at hand.