Mike Vick's dogs, where are they now?

[Sigarms]

I know people that had dachsunds (sp?) and they were mean, viscious little runts that needed to be shot, right after the owner of course.

Apologies, forgot, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

we had a woman who's Rottweiler killed her baby and she said she could always have another baby, but didn't want the dog destroyed, so I won't be surprised if you're the same way

Well, at least I now know for a fact that your opinion is wrong. You may also be surprised that I had no issue if the state had decided to destroy all of Mike Vicks dogs. By the same token, I hold those dogs potential actions accountable to Mr. Vick and his tag along "boys".

Although I had some information on the events of the dog care after the trial for dog fighting, found it a remarkable story actually written in Sports Illustrated.

You remind of some people I know who never thought of me as a person who hunted, or actually owns a gun (and like some people here, I've sold them all).

You probably also think I'm naive enough to treat all animals as if they don't pose some sort of threat, and that I would "lovingly" walk up to a strange dog (no matter what breed, let alone a "bully breed") and think I may not have a potential problem.

ANY animal can attack, and yes, I will even agree, that with some breeds of dogs, particularly "bully breeds", care and thought must be taken with raising the animal. Again, you don't need a license to have own dogs, let alone children.

I've actually taken care of dogs that were held by the state for states evidence in dog fighting rings that have had to of been destroyed. Dog fighting is a whole other subject pertaining to the "bully breed" which has numerous variables, and since I'm a horrible writer and pretty much a dumb guy, I'll to save you the pain of reading my rambling thoughts from experiences and personal readings, and ask you to reasearch the issue yourself. One point that I will touch base with is that with most "professional" dog fighters (not "red neck" Bob or LL B.J "in the hood" who is so stupid that he usually gets caught after a couple of fights) the dogs are NEVER trained to attack humans (and they won't, because if they do, they are usually destroyed), but to kill other dogs.

I did however read an article yesterday in the newspaper that again mentioned "pit bulls" (new sources always uses that term VERY loosely, and technically, there is no such breed as "pit bull, kind of reminds me of some of the great news reporting on firearms and some of the nut jobs who uses a weapon to kill).

I quote from the AP yesterday

"As more and more black renters began moving into this mostly white San Francisco Bay Area suburb a few years ago, neighbors started complaining about loud parties, vicious pit bulls, blaring car radios, prostitution, drug dealing and muggings of school children"

Hmmm, what can you determing from reading the above quote?

I can tell you from personal experience that I've stopped counting the times while at Pet Smart on the weekends for adoption fairs at the amount of young Afro American males who wanted to adopt our Terrier. Usually the required vet references or knowing the dog is spayed stops them in their tracks.

Heck, stayed up last night to watch Dick Clark and Kelly Piclar (or whatever her name is) for the new year. That alone scared me to where our society is heading

 

[shvl73]

in Dallas, we had a woman who's Rottweiler killed her baby and she said she could always have another baby, but didn't want the dog destroyed, so I won't be surprised if you're the same way.

Are you actually stating that Sigarms places no value on human life by directly comparing him to a person with obvious mental problems?
That is not a very well thought out statement and certainly not what I'd expect on this forum.

 

[Bird]

Are you actually stating that Sigarms places no value on human life by directly comparing him to a person with obvious mental problems?
That is not a very well thought out statement and certainly not what I'd expect on this forum.

Please read again what I said. I did not say he is like that woman; only that I would not be surprised if he is. Years of experience taught me to not be surprised at anything when a person is as adamantly proud of his dangerous dogs as Sigarms is. Does he place no value on human life? I don't know what value he places on human life, only that it's obviously, a great deal less value than some of us place on human life.

Take time to really think about all the possible reasons any person can have for owning such animals.

 

[Sigarms]

Years of experience taught me to not be surprised at anything when a person is as adamantly proud of his dangerous dogs as Sigarms

Could you please quote me where you come to the conclusion where I'm "adamantly proud" of my dangerous dogs?

Sorry, you seem no better than some anti gun people who quote ill informed newspaper articles yet know nothing about firearms other than what they read.

Speaking of dangerous dogs, I'm curious, from the pics, could you please point out which dog is dangerous? Didn't know a English Lab, aussie mix or beagle mix was now considered a "dangerous breed" (on a side note, the small fiest mix in the pic with the black Terrier is now to my understanding the "un official" mascott for the wake forest mens soccer team).

Lost count of the amount of dogs through our house (over 40), however, not ONCE have I ever had a dog that has bitten someone. Animals take time to train (and giving an agression test to "unknown" past history of animals helps determine what course of training is needed). Problem is, most people don't want to take the time.

From experience, what I can tell you, having an American Staffshire Terrier, out of all the dogs I've ever come across, it has been the most obedieant and loyal dog that I have ever known. That's not being proud, just my own personal experience.

Take time to really think about all the possible reasons any person can have for owning such animals.

Yes, it's getting hard to find time to post between all the dog fighting events I attend

So, I guess you could make that comment for anyone who owns a rottweiller sp?, German Sheperd, doberman or any other dog which could do serious harm to a human given the proper circumstances other than just a "pit bull"?

As I've mentioned before, out of all the pure breeds I've ever come across, your dog is one of the most agressive breeds I've come across.

Your same limited thinking could be said for anyone who owns a firearm.

Does he place no value on human life? I don't know what value he places on human life, only that it's obviously, a great deal less value than some of us place on human life.

So I now value human life less than "some of you" because I disagree with you? Amazing. I won't even go there, other than ignornace does come to mind.

I will admit however that I really did want to kick that chihuahua at the time when it bit me though (I was doing a favor for an elderly women who I didn't even know, and I realized that kicking that dog really wouldn't give that woman a warm fuzzy feeling).

 

[EddieWalker]

... so I won't be surprised if you're the same way...

Hi Bird,

I'm usually in agreement with most of your posts and positions. I've found you to be more then fair as a moderator and always considerate of others. This statement by you seems totally out of character.

Did something happen to you that makes you have such a strong opinion on certain breeds of dogs and people who own them?

Eddie

 

[Bird]

Hi Bird,

I'm usually in agreement with most of your posts and positions. I've found you to be more then fair as a moderator and always considerate of others. This statement by you seems totally out of character.

Did something happen to you that makes you have such a strong opinion on certain breeds of dogs and people who own them?

Eddie

Yeah, Eddie, I guess it is a bit out of character for me, but yes, you're right; I've seen enough to have very strong opinions about certain breeds of dogs and the people who own them. The owners are almost universally just like Sigarms; absolutely sure they know everything there is to know about their dogs, until someone gets seriously hurt, then they say, "Well, I didn't think he would ever do that." And of course, they're always sure it wasn't their fault or the dog's fault. The person who got hurt must have done something to set off the dog and cause the injury or death. People like that make me sick. And of course, just as Sigarms, they think it's just because I'm too ignorant to understand.

But I'm also smart enough to know that I should not have responded to Sigarms. He periodically brings up the topic, and I'll let you guess why.

 

[Sigarms]

The owners are almost universally just like Sigarms; absolutely sure they know everything there is to know about their dogs

I cannot "think" for any domesticated animal on my property and state with 100% accuracy what an animal will do, likewise, neither can you do the same for your pet.

FACT is some dogs, no matter what the breed, with size and strength, can cause bodily harm to a person.

Could you please quote me where you come to the conclusion where I'm "adamantly proud" of my dangerous dogs?

Could you answer my question so I know how you made your assumption? You responded to Eddie, but not my question.

And of course, they're always sure it wasn't their fault or the dog's fault. The person who got hurt must have done something to set off the dog and cause the injury or death

Again, please quote me to let me know how you assumed that this is my only opinion on the subject.

Dogs for the most part are just like guns. Being in the police department as long as you have, would of thought you would may of realized that. As mentioned, ANY dog can "go off". Likewise, dogs are pack animals and need socialization. Lack of socialization (be it human or with other dogs) can cause behavior issues.

You probably won't answer my question, but how many calls were you on while working for the police department involved pit bulls and what were the circumstances?

But I'm also smart enough to know that I should not have responded to Sigarms. He periodically brings up the topic, and I'll let you guess why.

You answerd because you're biased. Because of that, honestly, I would of hoped you would of stayed off the subject (not to mention the fact that your a moderator).

I mentioned it before (reason for the topic), found the article in Sports Illustrated and found it to be an interesting read. I have better things to do with my life then as LMTC had put it "to bait" people.

Take time to really think about all the possible reasons any person can have for owning such animals

Apologies, I didn't answer your question directly.

Close to three years ago we received a phone call (doing volunteer work for the local humane society, no affiliation with the national organization) from a couple who was moving into a mobile home. Apparently there was a dog with puppies under the trailer that the owner had mentioned would need to be taken care of. The couple called us because they thought we could help to the point where the animals wouldn't be destroyed.

The mother dog was in bad shape, and apparently had been shot at, with more than a couple of bb's still lodged in her body (why this dog was shot at, we have no clue).

Started off with six puppies and the mother dog.

The couple moving into the trailer told the landlord that they would take care of the dogs because at the time, our house was "maxxed" out with animals, and there was no way we could show the animals the attention they deserved.

IMO this couple, although young and short on money, had intelligence. They realized that with two small children, they could not properly care for the animals, nor keep them (limited funds), but still wanted to try to help.

We took dog food at no cost to the couple for close to two months.

The puppies were in bad enough shape that only two survived the first month.

The couple told us they had found homes for both puppies, and it was agreed that since they couldn't take care of the mother, we would bring her into our house as a foster animal.

At the time, we (wife and I) never owned, nor desired a bully breed (pit bull to make things easier).

We did research on the breed, and talked with who we considered reputable breeders on the breed to discuss traits and characteristics of the breed we were going to take into our home.

Fact is, we have had Lexi (the black American Staff shire Terrier) in our home ever since.

We don't, and will not adopt animals to anyone who wants a dog just to get rid of it on our end. Makes no sense to save an unwanted dog and put it back into a home in a no win situation with the wrong family, only to have the animal back out on the street for whatever reason.

Since Lexi is a bully breed, our adoption process is at its strictest per the family we think would be best suited for her.

As mentioned, numerous people have applied for her, but the fact is no one has applied who we feel comfortable with, knowing that Lexi will have a "forever home". As mentioned before, people who don'thave a vet reference need not apply (let alone racial profiling, which is illegal anyways).

The ONLY record we have of Lexi showing ANY aggression toward people is when the couple had their small child in the back yard of the trailer (no enclosures such as fences to speak of). If I remember correctly, the mother in law, who Lexi had never met (came for a visit that afternoon), came around the back to pick the child to carry to the front of the trailer. Lexi then growled at and started barking uncontrollably at the grandmother who was carrying the child away. The parents had heard Lexi barking and came running around to the back of the trailer. At that point, Lexi calmed down when she saw the parents take the child from the grandmother.

Talking with the father of the child, he was actually very glad Lexi did what she did (barking and growling) because he felt that the dog was protecting his child.

Lexi has now come a long way. In the three years since we've had her, she has been off our property no more than 10 times not counting vet visits. Fact is, trying to show her to prospective adoptive families is hard to do because once she gets off our property and goes into an unfamiliar territory, she barks and shakes uncontrollably. When people first meet her, they think "pit bull" and are automatically afraid of her. When she barks, people get afraid. A dog barking is only trying to communicate. Growling is a different form of communication for dogs.

Although I consider Lexi "my" dog, she still is a foster and if the right family comes along, have no hesitation in adopting her out.

A couple of people here on this forum have met Lexi at my house, and I have no doubt that they will tell you what a good dog she is.

That said, if you come onto my property, and Lexi does not know who you are, and Lexi has not observed the person on my property with either my wife or myself socializing with each other, and that person trys to do me or my wife bodily harm in close physical proximity, there is a chance that Lexi would not take to kind to the action of the person trying to do me harm. Am I proud of that? No. However, I do not mind that if someone is attacking me, there is a chance a dog will come to my defense.

So, you can think about the all the reasons why someone would want an animal such as this.

I just gave you the reason why I have that animal.

That said, for better or worse, I feel very comfortable leaving my wife alone when Lexi is by her side. Better or worse, my wife feels more comfortable with Lexi by her side than a sidearm. Any dog owner that owns a dog that can cause bodily harm in the defense of loved ones will usually have the same feeling towards the animal, no matter what the breed is.

Better yet, how about we just make any dog over 30lbs illegal to own?

Again, owning a dog is a responsibility. There are a lot of people that never realize that.

Speaking of dangerous dogs, I'm curious, from the pics, could you please point out which dog is dangerous?

Apologies, yet another question left unasnwered.

I've seen enough to have very strong opinions about certain breeds of dogs and the people who own them.

So what is your opinion of people who own German Sheperds, Rottweillers, Dobermans and "bully breeds".

Seeing that apparently I own a bully breed, I'm curious to your opinion on what type of person I really am.

I also find it amusing that I apparently have less value on human life in your opinion than others on this forum. I know for certain that some people would disagree with you on your opinion. Remember, actions speak louder than words.

I can disagree with people. That said, if I make a statement about how some feels IMO and that person feels that I have misrepresented them, and asks me for how I formed my opinion, I have no qualms with giving them an answer.

Yourself being a former police chief, I would expect the same from you.

 

[Bird]

Don't worry Bird, I don't expect a response from you. Likewise, I can sterotype, and I think I have you figured out.

OK, Joe, I'll respond one last time. I think it's obvious that neither or us is going to change the other's mind, and equally obvious that neither of us has any respect for the other.

And I'll have to admit that it was foolish mistake on my part to respond to your post at all, especially since you've brought up the topic before and I assume we both remember how that went.

And since I did respond, I said some things I should not have said. By that, I don't mean I said anything I'd be sorry for saying anywhere else, but I should not have said it on Tractorbynet. So if any of the other moderators think I've been out of line with what I've posted, I certainly have no objection if they decide to remove my posts.

 

[Sigarms]

OK, Joe, I'll respond one last time. I think it's obvious that neither or us is going to change the other's mind, and equally obvious that neither of us has any respect for the other.

And I'll have to admit that it was foolish mistake on my part to respond to your post at all, especially since you've brought up the topic before and I assume we both remember how that went.

And since I did respond, I said some things I should not have said. By that, I don't mean I said anything I'd be sorry for saying anywhere else, but I should not have said it on Tractorbynet. So if any of the other moderators think I've been out of line with what I've posted, I certainly have no objection if they decide to remove my posts.

Bird, please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't care if we disagree.

However, the only way I can learn is by asking questions. That said, if you don't answer my questions, how am I to determine that either the fault of communication or even perhaps my opinion may be in error?

Since you made assumptions, apparently from my posts, and you won't elaborate per my questions on how you formed your opinions, what am I to assume?

Fact is I'm horrible at the written word, and reading written text can be easily misconstrued.

I never stated that bully breeds can't be dangerous, please remember that.

However, if you can't, nor won't elaborate on how you formed your opinions on my position, you're correct, you shouldn't of responded.

Honestly, I expected more from you.

For the record, it's not that I don't respect you as a person, but as a moderator (over 20k posts has to be some sort of record for a mod). You need to learn that either you're a participant, or a "judge" as a moderator, it can become very hard to juggle the two and not become biased. Making it simple on some other forums, moderators cannot respond with their opinion on forums that they are moderating.

One reason why I stopped being a moderator on another forum.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

There are a lot of "unfortunates" when the subject of this type of dog is involved. I've been around many types and variations of this breed, and myself, am not a fan of them.

The biggest "unfortunate" is they happen to be the preferred breed of bad dog owners across America. The insurance industry has attempted to create some surcharges for owners, but alas, many of the owners are not the insurance type or don't fully tell the truth.

I'm not going to call out any names but please stop talking about chihuahuas and such, they don't kill children when they snap out of fear. Bullydogs do snap out of fear but it is the uncontrollable rage, aggression and power they possess which should make it illegal to have one.

About 50 miles from here, 3 jumped over a short fence and mauled a lady mowing on a Snapper. Unfortunately, the owner couldn't be taken to someone else's dog pens and penned up with them so he could see firsthand what these dogs are capable of. Plus, I don't think he had any insurance to cover the dogs' liability.

At least with guns, there are laws that bad people can't possess them. So don't compare this subject to guns. I think the stick of dynomite might be a semi-fare comparison.

I don't own any dogs right now but suppose I did. Suppose I load up the kids and 2 golden retrievers to go to the park and run and catch frisbee. Now what if the guy cruzin the park has 2 bullydogs in the back of his truck. They see my dogs and they jump out and come maul my dogs. What would you do if you were in my shoes???? Sit there and say thats "unfortunate". Personnaly, I like a high quality 34" softball bat.

I'm with Bird on this one. These things are a liability and there are very few people who can reliably raise and handle these animals. There are better breeds to own.