Millermatic 211 vs. Hobart Handler 210MVP

[shaeff]

I've been running a HH210 since before they came out with the 210MVP. It has to be 10-15yrs old, countless large wire spools run through it. I've *never* had an issue with it. It does drive me nuts that there are voltage taps instead of infinite adjustment, but I just tweak the wire speed and travel speed to get the bead profile I want. It's been a fantastic machine. If you intend to move it around the shop, build a cart for it. It's annoyingly heavy to transport.

I'd have no problem getting either.

 

[5030]

I have 2 Hobart's (190 amp) and an ESAB pulsed mig and they get used in the shop for production I prefer the Hobart machines for wet out (75-25 only) and are capable of spray arc transfer. The ESAB give you a TIG looking weld with glue gun speed but the wet out and penetration is much less than the Hobarts.

Also have a Lincoln Invertig for non ferrous stuff, Had them all a few years and run them real hard and I've never had a duty cycle thermal shutdown on either Hobart and usually running at max amperage too. I'm a spray transfer nut anyway.

Only thing I don't like about the Hobarts is the wire capacity. I prefer 50 pound spools.

To me, for the price, the Hobart is the ultimate glue gun.

Would never consider a 110 machine at all. Has to be 220-1 or 3.

 

[shaeff]

I have 2 Hobart's (190 amp) and an ESAB pulsed mig and they get used in the shop for production I prefer the Hobart machines for wet out (75-25 only) and are capable of spray arc transfer. The ESAB give you a TIG looking weld with glue gun speed but the wet out and penetration is much less than the Hobarts.

Also have a Lincoln Invertig for non ferrous stuff, Had them all a few years and run them real hard and I've never had a duty cycle thermal shutdown on either Hobart and usually running at max amperage too. I'm a spray transfer nut anyway.

Only thing I don't like about the Hobarts is the wire capacity. I prefer 50 pound spools.

To me, for the price, the Hobart is the ultimate glue gun.

Would never consider a 110 machine at all. Has to be 220-1 or 3.

Got any pics of the spray transfer from your Hobarts? I’ve done it once (probably by accident) with my 210 and loved it.

 

[5030]

Got any pics of the spray transfer from your Hobarts? I’ve done it once (probably by accident) with my 210 and loved it.

I don't do pictures as a rule, sorry. Bad enough I post tractor pictures once in a while. Not very photogenic. I'm old.

 

[5030]

Being old, I stay on the fence about inverter machines in general. They are substantially lighter and more portable but mine are all on carts anyway and the Invertig comes with a built in cart and consumables drawer factory. My Hypertherm is inverter as well. So far no isses with any but like I said, being old and old school, I prefer real windings.

 

[shaeff]

I don't do pictures as a rule, sorry. Bad enough I post tractor pictures once in a while. Not very photogenic. I'm old.

Understood! I can't fault ya for that. These days, many people are eager, for lack of a better word, to share everything about their personal lives. I respect your decision.

 

[BukitCase]

Shaeff, I doubt you actually did spray transfer by accident

Modes of Metal Transfer: Spray

Spray is a mode of metal transfer in which a fine spray of metal droplets are projected axially from the tip of the electrode to the work. These droplets are smaller in diameter than the electrode. This mode of transfer is characterized by high wire feed speeds (high amperage), high voltage...

weldinganswers.com

check out the chart in above link; it's more likely you got into globular transfer instead of short circuit; globular sort of mimics spray, but isn't.
Note the gas mixes that DO support spray, IF your machine has the "cojones" to reach high enough voltage settings. (C25 isn't one of 'em)

Also, unless you're into more expensive welders (as in pulsed MIG) true spray transfer (because of the high fluidity of the welds) is only possible in flat or horizontal welds.

My MM252 is spray capable, one of the 3 bottles I got when I bought it used was a 90/10 mix (but almost empty) so I tried spray a bit - it'd be great for high production NOT OOP (Out Of Position) and it's FAST but a lot of my welding is OOP, so that machine stays set up for .035 hard wire and C25 gas. with that setup I can weld any steel from 16 gauge up to (multi-pass) 3/4". If I need to repair aluminum (sorta) I have a bottle of Argon and a 30' spool gun... Steve

 

[shaeff]

Shaeff, I doubt you actually did spray transfer by accident

Modes of Metal Transfer: Spray

Spray is a mode of metal transfer in which a fine spray of metal droplets are projected axially from the tip of the electrode to the work. These droplets are smaller in diameter than the electrode. This mode of transfer is characterized by high wire feed speeds (high amperage), high voltage...

weldinganswers.com

check out the chart in above link; it's more likely you got into globular transfer instead of short circuit; globular sort of mimics spray, but isn't.
Note the gas mixes that DO support spray, IF your machine has the "cojones" to reach high enough voltage settings. (C25 isn't one of 'em)

Also, unless you're into more expensive welders (as in pulsed MIG) true spray transfer (because of the high fluidity of the welds) is only possible in flat or horizontal welds.

My MM252 is spray capable, one of the 3 bottles I got when I bought it used was a 90/10 mix (but almost empty) so I tried spray a bit - it'd be great for high production NOT OOP (Out Of Position) and it's FAST but a lot of my welding is OOP, so that machine stays set up for .035 hard wire and C25 gas. with that setup I can weld any steel from 16 gauge up to (multi-pass) 3/4". If I need to repair aluminum (sorta) I have a bottle of Argon and a 30' spool gun... Steve

In that case, you’re correct. Thanks for the clarification, and I looked up the globular transfer and that’s quite like what I saw through my mask. I’m a novice, but nothing I’ve welded has ever broken so I’d call that a win. Thanks for the info!

Edit to add, that was a great post, thanks again!

 

[BukitCase]

You're entirely welcome; I've been a novice at one form of welding or another since about 1970 (acetylene), 1971 (TIG, known then as heli-arc), 1973 (stick, mentored by a pipeline weldor), 2011 (MIG, currently a MM252 and inverter MM211), 2013 (inverter stick/TIG unit, + plasma cutter)

Never done welding for a living (hence the novice status :=) but have gotten paid for it a few times - I'm still breathing and with all fingers and toes, largely because I believe in learning MORE than I'll ever NEED to about ANY endeavor that could change the above conditions, BEFORE I do it -

I've been called "weenie" and worse for that tendency, often by "dumb and proud of it" types that do NOT have all their appendages; but among other things, I'm a musician and play keys, guitar, bass, drums, and occasionally a bit of cello - I have more $$$$ tied up in music gear than most people do in vehicles; tends to make me think BEFORE I act...

Oh, forgot to mention; if you've not already found it, closest thing to an "over the shoulder" mentor for welding

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

Down and Dirty Welding tips and tricks , No PhD's allowed

www.weldingtipsandtricks.com

I started learning about MIG from some of the pipe fitters on my maintenance crew, learned even more from Jody on the above site. Highly recommend... Steve

 

[BukitCase]

Minnesotaeric, seeing your (and Dale's too, thanks) "like" reminded me of your new toy (and my tiny bit of jealousy :=), saw this blurb a few days ago and thought I'd make sure you had (if not, don't click on the link

Understanding transfer modes for GMAW

The mode of transfer you choose when using gas metal arc welding depends on your requirements, application, and equipment. This also affects the type of filler metal you use.

www.thefabricator.com

Not a LOT on pulse mig, and I woulda liked their spray chart better if it included the 90/10 mix my LWS carries, but oh well... Steve

Actually, found a bit more, link to Lincoln PDF -

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjwlPuE2J3zAhWXt54KHRGiBBAQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lincolnelectric.com%2Fassets%2Fglobal%2FProducts%2FConsumable_MIGGMAWWires-SuperArc-SuperArcL-56%2Fc4105.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3dYB2VBHwgtvioFMkAc3lg