Momma Wants a Tractor

[5030tinkerer]

I am building a house on 28 acres. I had a Kubota Grand L3830 HST and 723 loader, heavy duty bucket and BH90 backhoe. I upgraded to the Grand L5030 HST and am very glad that I did. I'd advise to buy the largest machine you can afford. I bought mine at one year old, still under Kubota warranty, saved many thousands of dollars, and the seller threw in some forks that I thought I would never need, but use all of the time. Good luck!

 

[7AcherHaven]

. . . Having a backhoe is nice. The backhoe for the small unit lists for over $6K with the tractor - list over $17k for the 20 hp tractor and backhoe.
I paid $60 an hour for a large backhoe and operator and their fuel was included. So say that is about 100 hrs of work. For the small one it would take at least 200 hrs to do the same work, plus your time and your fuel. So the question is- is it worth it? basically, say you need to have at least 250 hrs of work to do, to make it worthwhile not counting your time. That is about 6 full time man weeks worth of work, after you figure how to coordinate and get good at using it-i have trouble with it. . . .

I've read this argument a lot on this forum, but everyone I know who has a backhoe goes on and on about what they've been able to do with it that they would not normally think of.

And I think I can think of a few more factors to add to the economic analysis. Like the odd jobs we need done, but just can't see paying the minimum for somebody getting their equipment out here for just that. Costs us some headache, time and convenience to just wait around until we have enough to make the $200+ minimum. I can't get $60/hr tractor work done on anything I have had done that I can remember - $95/hr just for skidsteer work. And we two tend to think really long term so it would pay off in the end. We've got lots we want to do which would definitely make it worth it I think. Like carefully sculpting a path a bit at a time from the house down to our pond which would be maybe 500' down and 500' more back up the other side. We want to wind it among the trees a bit at a time being careful not to cause too much erosion - and probably using the indigenous rock to brace up the hi side. Not exactly something I can hire done easily with a bigger tractor to have it done the way we want - heck, they couldn't make it between the trees. We will do the jobs just the way we want them done which is worth something to us. We've had a few cases where misunderstandings/etc. cost us something. I guess we are kinda particular about how we want some stuff done.

Most of what I can see we need done has to do with digging and moving material. What's a boom pole anyway? Never seen one. I bet I have used a loader for that kinda work before tho - but maybe not as elegantly. And now that I think of it a BH might have done it nicer. If it is a boom which can lift really high it might be useful around here - maybe until we finish the house and not so much after.

And I bet we will acquire more of our own attachments by and by as we see what is really useful to us - cart sounds nice, but that stuff is beans compared to BH money.

One thing I am wondering about. The FEL brochure talks about a Quick Attach Adapter (pin-on) for the little loader - ML104 I believe. Is that an adapter I can attach which can accept the skid-steer attachments or not? Nobody I've asked seems to know for sure. I've seen the FEL for the 3215 which definitely has it and would like the same for the 2015. I've seen lots of cool and reasonable stuff I could get which attaches that way. I wonder if a 4' FEL bucket exists for the skidsteer quick attachment.

 

[DavesTractor]

1st of all you got a good momma. 2ndly, you have done some homework.
Having a backhoe is nice. The backhoe for the small unit lists for over $6K with the tractor - list over $17k for the 20 hp tractor and backhoe.
I paid $60 an hour for a large backhoe and operator and their fuel was included. So say that is about 100 hrs of work. For the small one it would take at least 200 hrs to do the same work, plus your time and your fuel. So the question is- is it worth it? basically, say you need to have at least 250 hrs of work to do, to make it worthwhile not counting your time. That is about 6 full time man weeks worth of work, after you figure how to coordinate and get good at using it-i have trouble with it. Surely if you need a tractor you will need your own atttachments like a boompole, post hole digger, subsoiler blade, cart, etc.

Also factor in the residual value of the backhoe used. Even after several years and lots of use, it will be worth 75% of what it cost new. Try finding a good used backhoe attachment, it is tough. That means you need about $1500 worth of work to justify the purchase...and most of us are trying to justify such a purchase.

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

The ML104 loader q/tach bucket system is not a universal skid steer system. Skidsteer attachments for the most part are to heavy for the ML104 loader. You won't find any brand offering universal skidsteer attachments untill you jump up a notch or two in tractor and loader size. You can do a lot with a 2015 but maybe you should be looking at the 3215 if you want to use skidsteer attachments. Good Luck.

Galen LaWall
Your Mahindra Tractor Dealer
Batavia NY 14020
585-343-0770

 

[rback33]

The ML104 loader q/tach bucket system is not a universal skid steer system. Skidsteer attachments for the most part are to heavy for the ML104 loader. You won't find any brand offering universal skidsteer attachments untill you jump up a notch or two in tractor and loader size. You can do a lot with a 2015 but maybe you should be looking at the 3215 if you want to use skidsteer attachments. Good Luck.

Galen LaWall
Your Mahindra Tractor Dealer
Batavia NY 14020
585-343-0770

I'll second Galen there. The 2815 or 3215 are the smallest two Mahindras with a Skid Steer Style QA. There are ways around that, but I do NOT recommend them. For one, the added weight of the SKC QA will certainly reduce your capacities and two you would not have a Mahindra bucket for it. The pin on style QA, while not as quick as the SKC, is much lighter and very functional. Most importantly though it's Manufacturer Approved! It sounds to me like you have almost made up your mind. If you want to see one in action, I am sure a dealer (Parkway, where are u?) could arrange a demo at Mahindra if nothing else. That setup is a good one, I am sure you would be more than happy with it.

 

[7AcherHaven]

. . . Skidsteer attachments for the most part are to heavy for the ML104 loader. You won't find any brand offering universal skidsteer attachments untill you jump up a notch or two in tractor and loader size. You can do a lot with a 2015 but maybe you should be looking at the 3215 if you want to use skidsteer attachments. Good Luck.

Galen LaWall
Your Mahindra Tractor Dealer
Batavia NY 14020
585-343-0770

Good point, the extra weight would cut my lift capacity, no sense in even going there with something that small already. Was thinking about all the attachments I've seen for pretty cheap - like forks which I know I could really use. I'll check into what Mahindra has on those.

I'll second Galen there. The 2815 or 3215 are the smallest two Mahindras with a Skid Steer Style QA. There are ways around that, but I do NOT recommend them. For one, the added weight of the SKC QA will certainly reduce your capacities and two you would not have a Mahindra bucket for it. The pin on style QA, while not as quick as the SKC, is much lighter and very functional. Most importantly though it's Manufacturer Approved! It sounds to me like you have almost made up your mind. If you want to see one in action, I am sure a dealer (Parkway, where are u?) could arrange a demo at Mahindra if nothing else. That setup is a good one, I am sure you would be more than happy with it.

I know it sounds like I'm stuck on the 2015, but we have studied this enough to feel comfortable we can do what we need done with the 2015. And my wife is serious about not going bigger - even I can see it won't be trivial maneuvering around here with the 2015 TLB. Even tho we have 7ac we are only gonna do tractor work on probably a fraction of an acre plus the other things I mentioned. Heck, I might even start the backfill for the house with it, would be excellent practice for both of us. The excavation was done with an 80K lb. trackhoe in a few days (about $7K+ so far), but if I can put some dirt back with this thing (over a significantly longer time, of course) it will be heading in the right direction toward paying itself off. Costs $1K+ for them just to drive that behemoth out here before they even start working. And that wouldn't just be loader work for me, will need the BH to get it right. But I'm not overly optimistic, I know we are talking about a lot of dirt here, the hole was about 130' long and 12' deep at the deepest point. But now that the foundation walls are in there, not all the dirt has to go back in.

I just missed seeing a 2015 TLB this morning at American All Pro, the dealer in Lawrenceville. But it was already headed out of there to the new owner. I talked to a guy at the Blue Ridge Parkway dealer today and he was supposed to get back to me with a possible demo at Mahindra in Calhoun - which is about a 60 mi jaunt for me. Will check him again tomorrow.

Also factor in the residual value of the backhoe used. Even after several years and lots of use, it will be worth 75% of what it cost new. Try finding a good used backhoe attachment, it is tough. That means you need about $1500 worth of work to justify the purchase...and most of us are trying to justify such a purchase. . . .

Cool - I can already tabulate a good ways toward $1500 BH just on the house site work. What with some pretty long water line trenching, etc, and several foundation drain lines, and the one already in has to be dug up and redone, and there's plenty more yet to do. Feel better already, thanks.

 

[k54frog]

Hi 7acher and welcome to TBN!
I spent nearly a year and a half visiting Daves Tractor in No Cal before finally making a decision. My struggle was between the 2015hst and the 3215hst.
We have a 1 acre plot, mostly open with a few narrow spots and a cluster of oak trees.
Dave was kind enough to let me demo both of these units fitted with FEL & Backhoe. The 2710 BH on the 2015hst is no slouch. You will, however, have to be careful when digging because it has plenty enough oomph to upset the tractor. It has the same specs as the 3710 BH which fits on the 2615, 2815 & 3215. (I think the only difference is the sub frame mount since the 2015 has a smaller frame). The 3215 felt more stable with the BH due to its heavier build.
The 3215 is suprisingly easy to maneuver and is only about 6 inches wider than the 2015 even with the 5' FEL.
I had my wife come with me and drive/operate both of these units. She had never driven a tractor before. It only took her about 1-2 minutes to get comfortable with either machine and she was moving the dirt pile around efficiently within about 10-15 minutes. The xx15 hst series tractors are very easy to operate and highly maneuverable.
You mentioned enough projects & work to keep you busy for quite some time. I have found for every 2 hours of planned work I have there is at least 1-2 hours more unplanned work that I find to do. I believe in the "if you want it done right..." adage. Sounds like you subscribe to that sentiment also.
I ended up getting the 2015 hst W/FEL, PHD & clamp on forks and will have a box blade shortly. I am still seriously considering the 2710 BH and expect it will make a great Christmas present.
The only reason I didn't get the 3215hst was the small size of my borderline residential property, the relatively short list of projects (which I know will get much bigger), and deciding not to start my own small tractor service (to get the tax write-off).
I would strongly suggest you AND your wife test drive BOTH the 2015hst and one of the slightly larger models (2815hst/3215hst) you may be suprised at how easily and precisely they all handle. There's nothing like actually sitting on the tractor to get a good feel for it's size. If you two are truly serious about the long term you may find the larger units to be more advantageous.
It sounds like the limiting factor is clearance between the trees. Be sure to take your own measurements (outside of tires and length from front edge of FEL to back end of the tractor). Don't forget how precisely you can maneuver with the hst.
Consider the lift height and capactiy of the 3215 if you are going to be wanting to move construction materials onto a roof or elevated platform.
Ditto on LAWALLSTRACTOR comments regarding the skid steer QA.
Good luck with your decision, You'll be happy whichever way you go!
-Ken-

 

[k54frog]

One more thing...
seriously consider top & tilt for your 3 point, you'll never regret it!
-ken-

 

[7AcherHaven]

. . . I would strongly suggest you AND your wife test drive BOTH the 2015hst and one of the slightly larger models (2815hst/3215hst) you may be suprised at how easily and precisely they all handle. There's nothing like actually sitting on the tractor to get a good feel for it's size. If you two are truly serious about the long term you may find the larger units to be more advantageous.
It sounds like the limiting factor is clearance between the trees. Be sure to take your own measurements (outside of tires and length from front edge of FEL to back end of the tractor). Don't forget how precisely you can maneuver with the hst.
Consider the lift height and capactiy of the 3215 if you are going to be wanting to move construction materials onto a roof or elevated platform.
Ditto on LAWALLSTRACTOR comments regarding the skid steer QA.
Good luck with your decision, You'll be happy whichever way you go!
-Ken-

We actually have checked out the 2615 and 3215 at the LaGrange dealer, I wanted the 3215, but too big, she says. So the verdict right now is 2015 or BX-24 'bota. That's an easy one for me.

Clearance is definitely the limiting factor around here, sounds like you can relate.

As far as the weight and BH, we will have filled Ag tires and maybe counterweights too, should be doable - I like having the idea of having the BH oomph when I need it.

What is top & tilt?

 

[k54frog]

Top & Tilt ...
On the 3-Point assembly there are some turnbuckles that allow you to adjust the amount of tilt on the lower links and the top link. T&T replaces these with hydraulic cylinders that can be operated from the driver seat. Saves a lot of aggrivation and time that would be spent getting on & off the tractor to adjust the tilt angles of the attatchment especially on sloping terrain. Too easy!

Did she actually drive the 3215 or just look at it? There's a big difference between something looking too big and feeling too big once you're using it.

Look at the pics on my thread "finally - pictures" ... pic #2 show the hydraulic block for the top&tilt on the right fender. I'll take some closeups of the unit when the weather clears a bit, currently it is tarped over until I can get a shed or garage built.