Oil & Fuel Motor Oil as the Hydraulic Oil in Power Trac

[Bob999]

soooo, would this be the correct filter to put on the PT 422? I am thinking of doing this since almost 40% of my seat time is running the mower.

I have no doubt that this filter would work on the 400 series tractor. The question is whether a smaller/less expensive filter might also work.

 

[KMA]

I'm trying to take in all the information in this thread... but my brain "funnel" apparently has a small spout and it takes some time to sink in.

I'd like to do better than the stock 10w30 motor oil and was hoping that moving to a readily available multiviscosity UTF would be a step in the right direction. What are your opinions on the this one (which is 10w20 I believe):

Tractor Supply Company - TRAVELLER PREMIUM UNIVERSAL HYDRAULIC FLUID

Thanks for your input!

 

[DieselPower]

The majority of standard UTF's are a 10W/20 which would probably be fine at start up but at higher temps it would most likely be to thin. I can not find a spec sheet for the TSC UTF so I'm not even sure it is a multi weight.

 

[KMA]

The majority of standard UTF's are a 10W/20 which would probably be fine at start up but at higher temps it would most likely be to thin. I can not find a spec sheet for the TSC UTF so I'm not even sure it is a multi weight.

If 10W20 is not sufficient at high temps, then why do most of the standard UTF's use that weight? Why wouldn't they all do 10W30?

I think it says it's 10w20 on the label (if you look real close):

 

[DieselPower]

My understanding is that the Power-Trac system runs a good bit hotter than the common sump found on normal tractors and therefore use a higher viscosity oil. You also have to remember that the Power-Trac's drive system uses hydraulic motors for the drive system, something you don't find on normal tractors. Regular tractors use either hydrostatic transmissions or regular old gear type transmissions.

Why don't they all use one viscosity. Not every piece of equipment is the same. The same that holds true for engines holds true for other operating systems. Notice there is not only one wieght of engine oil, you can get anything from 0W/20 to 20W/50.

 

[KentT]

Most UTFs also are used in drive systems that have at least 2 speed ranges (some have 3 or more) that help compensate for any loss of torque due to differences in viscosity caused by temperature.

In comparison the PTs do not -- one speed range or "set of gear ratios" must function for everything from low-speed pulling and pushing to "transport speed" -- you have variable speed within only one speed range.

Consequently the PT doesn't have either the low-end torque of a CUT nor as high of a "transport speed."

 

[KMA]

Why don't they all use one viscosity. Not every piece of equipment is the same. The same that holds true for engines holds true for other operating systems. Notice there is not only one wieght of engine oil, you can get anything from 0W/20 to 20W/50.

I wasn't really asking why they don't all use one viscosity. I absolutely understand the reasons behind it, but I was only wondering why the "majority" of standard UTF's choose 10w20.

It was also mentioned that any UTF would be an improvement over the stock motor oil, so I posed my original question in order to get more confirmation.

I think any hydraulic oil or UTF would be a step up from engine oil. I was rather stunned that they used engine oil.

Thanks again for your input.

 

[DieselPower]

I guess I kind of misunderstood the question.

Standard viscosity UTF's run 10W/20 because that is the best performing viscosity for standard tractor applications using a standard off the shelf oil. It's good for the average climate where it's not to cold nor to hot, it's the happy medium. There are other viscosity's to be had like low temp UTF which normally runs around 5W/20 and is good for low temp applications and higher viscosity ones that run around 10W/30. Personally I have found the 10W/30 works great in standard tractors everywhere except extreme cold applications. The viscosity you use depends on your equipment application and operating temp range.

 

[BAGTIC]

If someone has a headache and you don't give him an aspirin, you haven't harmed him, but you haven't helped him either!! Theoretically, if the hydraulics in a PT could last trouble free for maybe 20 years with Synthetic Hydraulic Fluid (SHF), but maybe only last 10 years with Motor Oil (MO), did PT actually HARM the PT-425 by using MO instead of SHF??



I think that Power Trac is a good responsible company, BUT, remember, ANY company is in business to make money. They do so by: (A) producing a product as economically as possible, (B) selling new products, and (C) selling replacement parts, while (D) still pleasing their owners and future customers.

(A) Power Trac, for example, may well know that SHF would be far superior to MO in hydraulics, but providing SHF in a PT-425 would cost PT about $220 more than using MO which is apparently adequate. If PT is making a $2,000? profit on each PT-425 that it sells, then PT can make an additional 11% profit just by using MO as OEM!! Of course then they can’t put MO in as OEM, but specify SHF for replacement!!

(B) By producing the PT cheaper, PT can attract more buyers. Most buyers want a machine that works OK, and seems to give good value, and a PT does both. “Gee, I don’t even have to use expensive SHF in it!”.

(C) MO will most likely get a PT through the warranty period without a repair. After the warranty period PT can make additional profit by selling replacement parts. Maybe a repair wouldn’t have been needed if SHF had been used, but who can say for sure!?!

(D) If a product makes it through the warranty period and beyond without a breakdown, most owners will be happy, and most future customers will be impressed! Maybe using SHF would double or triple the life of the PT hydraulics, but no one knows for sure, and most don’t care!!

If MO is just as good as SHF in hydraulics, why do the oil companies, which are lubrication experts, make both products? PT engineers may build a nice tractor, but that doesn’t qualify them to know what the best lubricants are! I trust PT to build a good tractor, but I rely upon the oil company to determine how to best lubricate and protect it!!


PS: I switched from MO to SHF (https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ath.aspx) about 3 years (300 hours) ago, shortly after I got my PT-425.
Why? Because it didn’t make sense to use MO in the hydraulics, or to use SHF in the engine!
Is the PT better off? Maybe!
Was it a wise investment? Maybe!
Am I happy? YES!!
Why? Because I prefer preservation to restoration!!

You answered your own questions. If PT could save 220 dollars a tractor but the tractor hydraulics only lasted half as long wouldn't PT's get a reputation as short lived hangar queens like some makes of cars? Which is more costly, short term one time only fluid expense (remember an OEM gets this stuff much cheaper than you or I) or long term damage to the products reputation and the brand name?

If Ford/GM recommend a certain standard transmission fluid and I use it and the tranny goes out at 40,000 miles do I blame the fluid or the tranny? Do I cynically claim that the auto makers recommended an inadequate product so they likewise could pocket an extra $220? It is like using 104 octane gas in an engine designed for 87 octane, It doesn't accomplish anything except fpr the driver's ego.

Oil companies make a variety of products to fill a variety of demands. They will make any product for which their can profit. I understand why fluid manufacturers are proud $$$ of their products and their motives. They too have vested interests.They are not the final authorities. Neither is PT. Neither is Subaru. The authorities are the manufacturers of the hydraulics, pumps and motors. Of course some people would claim that they might encourage users to use an unsafe/unrealiable fluid just so the hydraulics would wear out faster so they could sell more replacements.

Personally, if I am using manufacturer approved fluids and my components are failing prematurely I am going to assume it was not the fluid but instead the component that was defective/shoddy and there wouldn't be a chance in **** I would replace with the same make.

 

[Spiffy]

Good point. However, when you consider the extra level of abuse I think most PT users give the hydraulic oil, I think there are much better choices. As pointed out before, some major brand SSL mfgs use motor oil to combat temp rises without highly impacting costs, but at least one [IH-Case comes to mind] adds an antifoam agent bringing it closer to a hydrualic fluid.

PT told me [not sure if Terry or someone else] that they consider the Rottella I'm running, good oil. I believe PT to be sincere, but [disclaimer: still haven't changed myself, but often wish I had], I'm positive that there are much better choices - and barring very short operating times - even so for the $$$.