mounting a winch on front of Kubota

   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #21  
I think a smaller winch could be a cool idea if you were using it for pulling yourself out of a sticky situation. Also seems like it would be handy for holding a odd shaped large load in your bucket. Also might be handy for tying tractor down to a trailer. But I agree that it is probably not the thing for moving large logs.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #22  
I did exactly as you are thinking on my Mahindra Max28xl. I use this $50 harbor freight winch with a brush grabber choker chain for pulling out bundles of scrub. It's cheap. It's slow. But when you have limited space to move the tractor, this is the best option to drag the stuff closer to the bucket. I would not want to use this to pull out true logs though. It's duty cycle is only a few minutes on and then 15 min off. It does have thermal overload which takes forever to cool off and reset. image.jpg
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #23  
I can tell you from the inexperience I have had with winches that would be for all the wrong reasons. If you pull with a winch the way your thinking it will pull the guts out of the winch. You want resistance on the cable when winding it up. If you roll it up slack you will have the biggest mess and a screwed up cable in no time.

That's right. With my 10,000# winch and 100' heavy cable, I have to pull something equivalent to a 10' log just so it winds in nice and straight. When it is empty it just snarles up.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #24  
I've been thinking about this winch thing for a while and I think I may have come up with a solution to my problem. What if I attach the winch to my tractor and then reel out however much cable I need to hook it to the log I want to pull. Then pull the log out of the woods using the tractor only, not the motor on the winch. Then when I get the log to where I want it and can get to it with FEL, I move the tractor a little closer to the log I've just pulled, then wind up several feet of the cable with no pull or resistance on the cable, then move the tractor again several feet closer to the log, then wind up more of the cable......keep doing this until I have it all wound up. That way I would not be using the winch motor and not have to worry about my battery and electrical system or duty cycle of the winch. Sound too easy a fix for what I want to do. Any thoughts on why it might not be a good idea or why it will not work.

I didn't see a single thing in that description that makes sense. Just spend your money on some good logging rope and learn how to tie a bowline knot. You will be a million times more efficient that way.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #25  
I have a similar problem pulling logs off a mountain side, with limited room to maneuver, and looked into this a while back. There are hydraulic winches available that have a fast line speed, e.g. 30-50 feet per minute. Ramsey and Pierce are two I found.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #26  
I really don't want to start Another Winch Thread and sorry if I'm hijacking the ops. So here's my questions. I have a 850 cca battery in my tractor. The book says it has a 55 amp alternator. What does that mean and how does it relate to battery draw down by the winch.

Lets discuss your question a bit. What is 850 cca rating you ask? Well it has nothing useful to tell you about rating a battery for use with a winch. What is cca? It is a standard rating. The CCA refers to Cold Cranking Amps. The rating is how many amps can be drawn from the battery for 30 seconds at 0 degrees Farenheight with the battery voltage not to drop lower than 1.2 volts per cell. So in the case of a 12 volt battery with 6 cells, that is 7.2 volts. So if you put one heck of a big load like 850 amps on your battery you could expect it to not drop below 7.2 volts at 0 degrees for up to 30 seconds.

This is not a very useful specification for on how a winch is to be used is it?.. 30 seconds on a winch is about what maybe 2 foot of winch line coming in or less? Of course your winch is not going to draw 855 amps either. These rating are marginally useful in rating how the battery will act in very cold temps and cranking a starter motor that is turning over an engine with thick oil.

There is another rating for your battery, somewhat more useful than CCA and that is its amp hour rating. Your battery is probably about 75 maybe 80 amp hours, which THEORETICALLY means you could draw 80 amps out of it for one hour.. BUT you cant really. What you could do is draw 1 amp out of it for 80 hours though.

So when you start pulling 150 amps out of your battery(a possible real world winch load) for several minutes as you try to drag that log up out of the woods, you can see that the battery is going to go flat in a hurry.. a BIG hurry. If you try to pull 100 to 150 amps out of a 80 amp hour battery it will be below 10 volts in a matter of seconds, or a couple of minutes at best. Dont forget as the voltage drops, the winch will slow.

Now the good news. You have an alternator that is putting power back into the battery. Now the bad news, Your puny 55 amp alternator cannot even begin to keep up with that 150 amp draw from a big winch. So you winch for a few seconds, and charge for a few minutes? Ok you could do that. And the benefit is the winch has a chance to cool down too. But this is going to be a frustrating slow process. Don't forget that alternator is going to get pretty hot too.

Keep in mind that big winches on trucks, are mainly used to get the truck moved a few feet to get it up out of the "hole", and the alternators on even a standard truck is will over 100amps with many around 140 amps, and people who are serious about winching have 2 batteries and 300 amp alternators.

A 55 amp alternator on a CUT tractor is actually a rather large one, as they go, with many somewhat less than 50 amps. But what is the electrical load on a CUT tractor? not a whole lot... just some lights, and recharge the starting battery. On some we have a heater or AC fan or two, and a dashboard, and some computers, but still very small loads. Not huge electrical loads like we would have with all the accessories on a car or truck.

So to sum up.. Is a big electrical winch on a CUT for pulling logs a good idea? NO, not even close. Is it ok for pulling yourself out of a hole? Sure, Just keep in mind the limitations on how long you can pull for and how long you need to recharge and cool.

Is a PTO driven logging winch a good idea? You bet it is. That is why they make them.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #27  
I agree that an electric winch would not work well for this application. A hydraulic winch with sufficient line speed however, could work just fine. The PTO logging winches are no doubt best for production logging, but for lighter usage a hydraulic winch would take up less space, and free the back of the tractor for other purposes such as backhoe with thumb (or rotating grapple) for loading logs once winched out.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #28  
James had hit it right on the head. A standard 9000# winch will draw 300 amps at half load- 4500lbs or so. Your poor little 55 amp alternator will get exceedingly hot in its failed attempt to keep up. The wiring can get so hot the insulation melts off - the battery can easily boil dry - the winch motor will get so hot it starts steaming - I have years of experience using Warn winches with jeeps. It was always to pull a vehicle out of a difficult stuck situation. In a rescue situation there is one advantage to an electric winch over PTO. The electric will continue to pull - for a short while - even if the engine will not run. If the engine is dead - so is the PTO. The advantage of the PTO - if the engine can run- you have almost limitless cycle time to use the winch. The best of all worlds - don't get stuck - ha,ha,ha.
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota #29  
Anyone have a way to drive a common truck pto winch from a tractor pto so it can be reversed?

Bruce
 
   / mounting a winch on front of Kubota
  • Thread Starter
#30  
Original Poster here. Wow, what a response I've gotten from all of you. What seemed like a good idea really has turned out to be a bad idea. And I have all of you to thank for helping me out on this. I'll stick to my series of chains and use some good old elbow grease. This project of getting this cut up tree out of the woods and into my woodstove is not going to be a continuous project anyway. I can't thank you all enough for spending the time to write some very long and detailed comments.

Alex
 
 

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