Moving logs

   / Moving logs #41  
In Southern California they spend billions of dollars on fire suppression. The result is they have more frequent and intense fires than Baja California where they spend 0 dollars. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Just a factoid to think about.
 
   / Moving logs #42  
<font color="blue"> In Southern California they spend billions of dollars on fire suppression. <font color="red">The result is </font> they have more frequent and intense fires than Baja California where they spend 0 dollars. Just a factoid to think about. </font>

A rooster crowed this morning. <font color="red"> As a result </font> , the sun came up.

Since you asked us to think about this "factoid", I will ask you to please do the same. Might there have been even more frequent and intense in [much more densely populated ] Southern California had these prevention measures not been undertaken? If your answer is no, then I would have to assume that you believe that these measures actually increase the frequency and intensity of fires. (I say this because the odds that the frequency and intensity of fires would have stayed EXACTLY the same are astronomically high and therefore not a reasonable alternative in my opinion.

If then, it is your opinion that the number and intensity of the fires actually increased AS A DIRECT RESULT of the fire prevention methods, could you please scientifically explain the mechanism by which the fire prevention measures cause fires to increase in frequency and intensity?

Lastly, please feel free to merely accept the possibility that there is a flaw in your logic, and that cause and effect (see rooster and sun example) are sometimes not as obvious as they might first appear.

And this is not just about forest fires in Southern California. The reason I am allowing myself to get "bent out of shape" about this is that there are many, many very real and difficult problems facing this world that are going to take a great deal of dispassionate logic and scientific thinking to solve. Logic is a science, I wish we could all treat it as such. The consequences for this planet of not doing so are great.

John D.
 
   / Moving logs
  • Thread Starter
#43  
A major issue in Southern pine forests is the Southern pine beetle. Lots of dead pine trees left on the ground can incite an infestation of the entire stand. I agree about leaving hardwoods for the most part though.

BTW, I went with the Payne Forks log fork ($580, shipping included for 2000 lb fork with logger conversion adapter). I just couldn't justify the grapple's cost and, to be honest, dreaded taking my FEL off!
 
   / Moving logs #44  
I think all the forests should be thinned out with the help of a forester. It encourages new growth, cuts down on the forest fires in respect the flames have a longer way to jump from treetop to treetop and good lumber that could go bad [rot etc] because of its older age can be salvaged. As far as the planet going bad........ It didn't happen overnight.......LIFE GOES ON........
 
   / Moving logs #45  
<font color="blue"> As far as the planet going bad........ It didn't happen overnight.......LIFE GOES ON........ </font>

Indeed, life goes on ..... now, the big question that we must individually and collectively answer is - will that life be mammalian, or microbial?
 
   / Moving logs #47  
I'm not a scientist. I try my best to live within the laws. I really don't stress out on what the future will bring. I served my country and I don't litter. If that helps bring about a mammalian society, I'll accept that. I don't really worry about it. The naturaL resorces may soon be used up but one form of life or another will go on.
 
   / Moving logs #48  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Indeed, life goes on ..... now, the big question that we must individually and collectively answer is - will that life be mammalian, or microbial?
)</font>

That is indeed a big question. We constantly seek easy answers for difficult questions.
As I indicated before I strive for a low impact, while enjoying life. No doubt you are familiar with the "sustainable forestry" concept... although my woodlot isn't or ever will be certified, because it's mine Iwalk it on a regular basis, and my standards are as high or higher.
We are the dominant species on the planet right now. We can trash it, if we so desire... or we can go to the other extreme and strive for NO impact. Of course, that would require intentionally wiping out 80% of our population.
I stick to the middle ground.

Ultimately the planet will decide what's best. It could be a pandemic, wiping out much of the population; or a meteor slamming into the atmosphere, as common lore now believes happened to the dinosaurs.
 
   / Moving logs #49  
<font color="blue"> I really don't stress out on what the future will bring. I served my country and I don't litter. If that helps bring about a mammalian society, I'll accept that. I don't really worry about it.</font>

John, I deeply admire your service to your country, and I respect the views you are expressing. I would just like to make an observation that to me, there is a difference between stressing and worrying, and calmly discussing options and taking prudent actions that will make the future better than it would have otherwise been absent such actions.

Tom - I realized I was leaving out our 6-legged friends as I was posting that - can't forget them. If anything could survive a 10,000 megaton nuclear exchange, it would be the cockroach.

And Jst - As to <font color="blue"> Ultimately the planet will decide what's best </font>: I hear what you're saying, but we do have a lot to do with what goes on on this planet. There are probably inexorable forces at work which will wipe out civilization as we know it within 200 years or less, but we can at least forestall the inevitable. For instance, start building safe, standardized nuclear reactors based on the brand-new French design on which construction will begin this year, and use them to reduce our dependance on oil, and to power the desalinization plants that we will so obviously need in the near future, as the midwest's Oglala Aquifer is depleted and the world's population heads to 9 billion by 2100.

Next maybe we could get money out of politics, so solutions to some of these problems can be discussed on their merits, rather than according to whose pockets stand to be lined. Don't hold your breath though, the Supreme Court has essentially determined that "one person, one vote" is unconstitutional. Oh well, there's always hope - maybe I'll come back as a cockroach.
 
   / Moving logs #50  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have two different sizes of skidding tongs, and they save me a lot of work. I can hook up, drag, set where I want, and unhook the tongs without getting off the tractor. )</font>

Could you explain this in more detail? I mean the not getting off of the tractor part. I would like to do this with the three-point hitch instead of the loader though. I thought that once a pair of tongs got a bite they were awfully hard to get to release without spreading them manually.
 
 

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