Mower safety

[AlanB]

Hmmmm,, not sure how to term this one, but I guess I will call it a "fortunate Close call"

First off, my DW runs a mowing, landscaping, hardscaping business.

We lost a couple of employees for some other pursuits, and we have 2 new employees working. They are a brother and a sister.

So the brother is trying to get the sisters attention. Brother weedeating, sister on an Exmark 60" ZTR. He walks towards her, on the left / discharge side.

She has the gaurd up. He gets right up too her, and gets his foot under the discharge chute.

He is wearing steel toed boots (not our requirement) What I believe happened (in the blink of an eye) is that as the blade struck the steel toe, it lifted his foot, the blade passed below the steel toe, and above the sole, seperating the boot at the stitches.

It cut off a slice off the bottom of his big toe. Fairly serious cut, but in the context of what could have been, nothing.

So, what went wrong.

Inexperience.
Hot, tired, sweaty working conditions
Gaurd up (One level of safety defeated)
Approached from the side, instead of the front.

That was a too close for comfort hit, but all in all, they are back out at it again today and that one could have been much worse.

Thought I would share, so a bunch of safety folks can jump all over about how there should be more guards / training etc. etc.
And some folks will take it as a little reminder, and maybe mention it to someone that will think about it for just a second before walking up too someone on a running mower.

 

[Soundguy]

What went wrong?

The guy that walked up and stuck his foot under the mower is an idiot.

We all got them though.

I got a young (adult) guy working for me that pulled his motor cycle into a gas station at dusk one night and then used his cig lighter to provide light to see how much gas was in his tank.

It of course flashed on him burning his face and hair off... Another gas station patron apparently put him and his motor cycle out with a fire extinguisher.. etc.. No serious harm to him .. though I've not seen the bike lately.

I think FWJ has a sig line that says something like " some people can learn from reading a book. but the others have to pee on the electric fence'.. or something to that effect.

I chalk it up to evoloution/darwinism in effect... Some people are just right on the edge of being stupid enough so as to get themselves killed right quick.. Only hope is that they don't pass on any of those genes..

Soundguy

 

[AlanB]

I guess I disagree on this one, maybe it is just semantics though.

I think he is a smart guy that made a stupid move, and there were several factors that contributed to that.

Whoopie Goldberg does an entire routine about the worst word in the English language is "stupid".

I guess I try my best to not throw the rocks too far nor too hard, lest I find the glass walls shattering around me.

We were talking about close calls at work this morning. I walked in front of a ground taxing (sp) OH-58 (bell jet Ranger) one day, only thing that saved me was an alert pilot that was a freind of mine.

I made a very stupid move that day, and came real close to paying with my life, and potentially effecting several others as well. But I would not consider myself "stupid" in a broad sense.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I guess I disagree on this one, maybe it is just semantics though.

I think he is a smart guy that made a stupid move, and there were several factors that contributed to that.

Whoopie Goldberg does an entire routine about the worst word in the English language is "stupid".

I guess I try my best to not throw the rocks too far nor too hard, lest I find the glass walls shattering around me.

We were talking about close calls at work this morning. I walked in front of a ground taxing (sp) OH-58 (bell jet Ranger) one day, only thing that saved me was an alert pilot that was a freind of mine.

I made a very stupid move that day, and came real close to paying with my life, and potentially effecting several others as well. But I would not consider myself "stupid" in a broad sense.

I'm inclined to agree with most of what you had to say. It wasn't exactly a golden moment of Einstien-ism that caused the accident, but it isn't proof of the guy being an idiot. (Although that isn't out of the realm of possibility) It was just an accident.

Some people are more proned to accidents than others. Some are very carefull. It's an individual assessment as to which group you fall in. If you (or anyone else) is in the accident proned group, you need to pick and choose carreers, hobbies, and everyday events VERY carefully. If you're in the group that ISN'T accident proned, you ALREADY choose carefully more than likely.

As an employer, we have to be observant for employees who push the saftey envelope. As an employee, we have to help protect our livelyhood by observing other employees that are dangerous, or proned to do dangerous things. Not only could they injure themselves or someone else, they could do great financial harm to our "bread and butter".

There's a good reason why every conceivable piece of equipment made comes equipped with gaurds, shields, warning labels, disclaimers, and saftey switches. SOMETIMES we ALL make mistakes. We're human. It happens. It can happen to anyone. We should TRY to eliminate the possibilities of accidents, but we'll NEVER totally eliminate them.

All things being equal, don't stick your toe under a running lawn mower.

 

[Jae]

I have to side with Soundguy here..

When heavy machinery is involved, there is no room for semantics. I am fanatical about being safe on our ranch, I expound the dangers of every possible aspect of what could go wrong to anyone operating the equipment.
In an environment like a working horse ranch there are literally hundreds of ways to get seriously injured or even killed on a day to day basis.

On my equipment there is no room for error. And if someone thinks that telling me "oh, well, durr, i wasn't paying attention" is a sufficient excuse, well lets just say they had better start headin home right at that point! Some words of wisdom come to mind, "stupid is as stupid does". If I personally put myself in the place of your worker, I would never have that experience, not ever. Why? becasue I just plain don't waltz up to any equipment when an operator is running it! Alarm bells would be sounding off in my head if I were to even think about doing such a thing! If i need to get someones attention on the working equpiment, I wave, yell, or just wait.. as there is nothing that is so important that I need give up a limb or two just to get the message across.

I have a zero tolerance policy for stupid, I get enough just driving round town, i don't need it when i get to work....

I like my limbs where they are.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

If I'm reading what you're saying, ANYONE who's EVER had even the slightest accident of ANY description is an idiot. Not happenin'.

I don't know that anyone would go with a person who constantly makes excuses for making serious mistakes. No arguement there. But EVERYONE makes a slip up now and then. I've been around long enough to know there's NO ONE who doesn't make mistakes. It's the person who REPEATEDLY makes bone-headed errors that there's no place for.

I farmed for more than 35 years. I've also been involved with a large general contractor in one capacity or another for even longer. I've spent a LOT of time around dangerous equipment and jobs. In that time, I've managed to avoid any serious injuries or accidents myself. In that time, I've also had the opportunity (if you want to call it that) to see some of the most careful people on earth be involved in ACCIDENTS. They aren't always just because someone wasn't careful. They just happened. Call it bad timing, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever it is, they just happen.

Granted, sticking a toe under a running lawn mower isn't the brightest thing a person can do, but one mistake shouldn't condemn a person to "idiot" for the rest of their days. IDIOT would be a title given to the person who did that TWICE.

 

[Jae]

You have a good point there, and I won't disagree that even the most carefull of people can have accidents. As I have managed to survive thus far with all my libs intact notwithstanding, abiding by simple rules of conduct when in dangerous situations, we use our heads. What i'm saying is in this instance, I am judging this "worker" harshly as needed to the severity of the situation as he clearly was not using his grey matter, and endangerd both himself, his sister and the employer. If it were me that had done so, I would be outright telling everyone i'm "stupid". As any business owner would attest, I have watch out for my hiney as much as my worker and his/her legal rights to persue my wallet after a "preventable" accident. And in the big bad world we live in today there are no second chances as I see it. I don't make those rules, but I sure gotta live by em despite what I think.

I don't pretend to be the be all end all source of information on the subject, not in the least. But i do hold my opinion on the matter, and I was just stating it. I was not directing any personal insutls to anyone, re-reading my own post it might seem as I was attacking what you said personally Farmwithjunk, or even worse calling you stupid. I assure you that was not my intention. You are entitled to your opinion (which i respect) as much as anyone. There was no insult intended, just a difference of opinion...

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You have a good point there, and I won't disagree that even the most carefull of people can have accidents. As I have managed to survive thus far with all my libs intact notwithstanding, abiding by simple rules of conduct when in dangerous situations, we use our heads. What i'm saying is in this instance, I am judging this "worker" harshly as needed to the severity of the situation as he clearly was not using his grey matter, and endangerd both himself, his sister and the employer. If it were me that had done so, I would be outright telling everyone i'm "stupid". As any business owner would attest, I have watch out for my hiney as much as my worker and his/her legal rights to persue my wallet after a "preventable" accident. And in the big bad world we live in today there are no second chances as I see it. I don't make those rules, but I sure gotta live by em despite what I think.

I don't pretend to be the be all end all source of information on the subject, not in the least. But i do hold my opinion on the matter, and I was just stating it. I was not directing any personal insutls to anyone, re-reading my own post it might seem as I was attacking what you said personally Farmwithjunk, or even worse calling you stupid. I assure you that was not my intention. You are entitled to your opinion (which i respect) as much as anyone. There was no insult intended, just a difference of opinion...

Well ACTUALLY....I didn't see your comments directed at me in the first place. I thought they were directed at anyone who may have had a simular accident as the one mentioned. I know someone who had a simular event. They aren't what you would consider a wreckless person. It just happened.

I'm trying to see past my initial reaction to accidents like this. I used to judge people harshly when things like this happen. Years have taken the edge off. After seeing how otherwise careful folks have bad things happen at random, just the same as careLESS people, I try to wait until I see if a person has a tendency for dangerous behavior before I hang that label on them.

There's STUPID, and then there's DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.

Not everyone has been exposed to what can go wrong. I spend a LOT of time at work around what I can't help but refer to as "city boys" who never spent much time around machinery, or work in general until they reached adulthood. They're a little behind on the learning curve. SOme catch up quickly, some don't. Once they've had an opportunity to learn, what they do with the new-found knowledge is what determines my opinion from there on.

The longer I live, the less harsh I am in judging what people do. When I was a tough critic, not many people could pass muster. What's so funny, once I decided to go easier on people, there STILL aren't many who pass with flying colors.

 

[Soundguy]

I think FWJ hit on a good point here.. safety labels. As we all know and have probably seen.. there are labels depecting feet and hands near mower guards.. those labels are for people just like in post # 1.

On a not so funny note.. I'm one of those people that actually enjoy reading the operating manual on a piece of equipment BEFORE I touch it.. so that i am familiar with allit's parts and warnings.

Most manuals I see today have a section on safety right in back.. some even depict all the warning labels you will see and give a brief explanation...

Just a though?.. but has this guy had a workplace safety training course or meeting?

That's one of the hats i have to wear at work... safety coordinator / drug free workplace coord. I got a whole crew of guys.. many of which may or may not have a high school education... some of them.. are sharp as tacks.. and some of them are the ones the use an open flame to peer down into a fuel tank... unfortunately I havn't found a good corelation between academics and common sense.. I've seen plenty of 'smart' un-safe people.. etc..

If the guy had been walking, tripped and his foot shot undernetath the mower.. I'd have chalke dthat up to bad accident..

However.. he placed himself in danger by approaching a piece of equipment. To be fair.. the mower operator probably should have killed the mower when she saw someone get within touch distance... I'd say there was an error on judgement by more than one person here ..

soundguy

 

[AlanB]

No, we are not at the point where we run safety meetings and training. I wear several of those hats as well at my regular job so am very familiar with it. No, he was not a "Fully Trained" operator at that point.

I am not sure, I was not there for the incident, but I do not believe the operator was aware of his presence until the incident had occured.

I will say that we were fortunate she did not jerk left steer and run him over when suprised. That couple thousand pound mower would eat a person up if it grabbed hold.

I guess I can identify with how it happened.

If you two (soundguy and Jae) want to say that anyone that has an accident like that is stupid, well, I guess I would have to wear that shirt. However, you both would be pretty impressive folks if you have never had accidents and stupid moments.

And if I fired every employee that did "stupid" acts, we would not have much of an employee base (not that it is that great now).

 

[Farmwithjunk]

No, we are not at the point where we run safety meetings and training. I wear several of those hats as well at my regular job so am very familiar with it. No, he was not a "Fully Trained" operator at that point.

I am not sure, I was not there for the incident, but I do not believe the operator was aware of his presence until the incident had occured.

I will say that we were fortunate she did not jerk left steer and run him over when suprised. That couple thousand pound mower would eat a person up if it grabbed hold.

I guess I can identify with how it happened.

If you two (soundguy and Jae) want to say that anyone that has an accident like that is stupid, well, I guess I would have to wear that shirt. However, you both would be pretty impressive folks if you have never had accidents and stupid moments.

And if I fired every employee that did "stupid" acts, we would not have much of an employee base (not that it is that great now).

Once upon a time, I was right there with my quick trigger to call people stupid if they did something that wasn't real bright. Then I got a little older. I saw friends, relatives, even my own self do things from time to time that I'd consider a bad move if and when I stood back and looked at it objectively. I saw people who I considered anything BUT stupid doing these things. The law of avergages catches up with us. Being fatigued catches up with us. Just plain ol' complacentcy catches up with us. That doesn't make us stupid. It just makes us human. That's no excuse for being careless, but it happens none the less.

For all I know, the guy who got his toe cut might be Forrest Gumps stupid cousin. Or he might be the second coming of Christ. Who knows. It's impossible for any of us to give a conclusive evaluation based on one report of one instance.

 

[6sunset6]

I just bought a new machine NH and the sales guy says to me that this gets you on the list for our next tractor safety class. He gave me a picture of the last class. A lot of old guys there. Maybe thats why they managed to get old, always willing to learn something new about safety.

 

[jbrumberg]

Heat, sun, fatigue, noise, probable dehydration, and not utilizing installed safety equipment are the recipe for disaster. I have not even ridden my riding mower for three weeks due some medical issues , but I would rather be able to post on TBN than mess myself up doing something stupid with machinery. By the time I get around to mowing my "lawn" I will probably have to use my rotary cutter (It will not be the first time ). Jay

 

[patrick_g]

In the military they say you fight like you train. Same thing holds with safety practices in working situations. You will do what you have trained yourself to do for better or worse. Don't expect someone who is NEVER required to do tasks safely to suddenly be overcome by a gust of safety consciousness before loosing a slice of toe (and then still maybe not.)

I am a pilot. There are check lists to ensure you do the right thing. In private flying there is rarely anyone watching to ensure you comply with checklists. One way to tell if you want to fly with someone is to watch him when he is unaware of being observed and see what he does to preflight the aircraft. In the spring the little tweety birds like to nest in the cooling air intakes of the aircooled engines which when obstructed by a nest will fry in flight and seize up forcing an emergency dead stick landing. Checking for these nests is a STANDARD item. All student pilots are forced to go through the checklists and must use them to pass their FAA check ride. Avoid the guy who just kicks the tires, lights the fires, and blasts off.

There are safety procedures published for just about all equipment. Much of it is good useful info not just liability reduction BS. I believe when brush hogging that it is my responsibility to lower the deck to the ground and disengage the PTO it anyone approaches within my kill radius for thrown objects. Even with safety chains I have tossed some good sized sticks and stones quite a ways with enough force to break bones.

You cannot legislate intelligence and nothing can ever be made really foolproof. Lets be sure we understand the difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance can be curred with training and experience but stupidity has no cure. I try to never hire a stupid person as they are just too dangerous to be around. Ignorant persons can be trained but you do have to put out the effort or require them to conform to your SOP's or the manuals for the equipment.

If you do not place demands on people with consequences for non compliance then you are just as much at fault as the person doing things unsafely. Silence is considered to be assent. If you witness unsafe acts and do nothing you are reinforcing the behavior.

I prefer to work with people rather that have them work alone until after I have ensured I approve of their approach to tasks and determine their safety attitude is satisfactory to me.

Pat

 

[TrippleT]

I would say that people who don't make mistakes aren't doing much. Anyone who is human makes mistakes. Just natural. However, we should try to be safety minded and evaluate the situation as much as possible.

 

[Soundguy]

If you two (soundguy and Jae) want to say that anyone that has an accident like that is stupid, well, I guess I would have to wear that shirt. However, you both would be pretty impressive folks if you have never had accidents and stupid moments..

My comments specifically mentioned that person/situation. I made no broad ranging comments about anyone having an accident is stupid. However.. my comment still stands.. especially now that more info is out, and the machine operator did not know the person was approaching. IE.. he put himself in danger by approaching that machine, while it was operating ( blade engaged ).. and when the operator did not have a good view of him. Safety is as much a personal responsibility issue, as it is a public awareness issue. I think my previuos comment could be re-phrased to say that he performed a 'stupid' act. Which by itself does not doom him to stupidity. Now.. if he keeps standing on the 'track' for the 'train' to hit him.. then well.. that establishes a pattern...

And if I fired every employee that did "stupid" acts, we would not have much of an employee base (not that it is that great now).

Sadly, we don't have that option. if an employee does a sufficiently unsafe act.. .. we've actually been told by our liability ins carrier to unload the unsafe workers.... or we would be unloaded..

We can't afford to loose coverage because some goober uses a cig lighter to look down in fuel tanks... 'what if' he did that on the job.. and blew up a thousand gallon fuel truck that killed people... we can't take that liability issue lightly.

Sure.. some things get a second chance.. however some things ya got to nip in the bud... that's a fine grey line sometimes

Soundguy

 

[patrick_g]

I would say that people who don't make mistakes aren't doing much. Anyone who is human makes mistakes. Just natural. However, we should try to be safety minded and evaluate the situation as much as possible.

...and reevaluate if we aren't getting the results we want or find a flaw in our procedure.

Yesterday I was working on a large built in cabinet I am making that is 44 inches tall, 12 ft long and has 9 large drawers. I was using a Senco finish nailer (air powered.) I unconsciously violated one of the safety rules while holding some pieces in place to "shoot" them with finish nails. Somehow my aim was a tad off and the wood turned the nail and it went awry. Luckily it just hit my hand a glancing blow and the bleeding stopped in a couple minutes and looks like I had a pimple, totally superficial due to random chance not because I was doing the right thing. I could have just as easily become really truly attached to my work. I still haven't found the 2 inch nail.

You can rest assured that I will try hard to avoid repeating that event, or worse.

I too am a believer in the only people who don't ever make mistakes are the ones not doing anything. The truly dangerous ones are those who repeat the same mistakes.

Pat