Mowing 5 to 7 Acres - is ZTR the best approach

clarkie · Feb 16, 2006

Gentlemen,

I am cutting approximately 5 to 7 acres of grass around my house and barn. Currently I am using a Cub Cadet 2165 with 48" deck. This is taking me about 6 to 7 hours per week, and I need a better solution. Is ZTR the way to go? I already have a Century/Branson 45 HP tractor, bought with the assistance of TBN users two years ago, so I do not need to do anything else but cut grass with the new machine. About 20% of my mowing is on some hillside. (approximately 20% grade), and my terrain is fairly bumpy. If ZTR is the way to go, which of the following units comes well recommended.

Grasshopper 223/61
Bob-Cat (by Jacobsen) ZT-223
Kubota ZG23
John Deere 737 Z-Trak
Cub Cadet M54-KW
Ferris IS2000ZKAV2561

All units are 23 HP gas, except Ferris, which is 25 HP. All units have 60" Deck. I am overwelmed by the choices. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Any help would be appreciated. I remain open minded so other suggestions are welcome.

clarkie

ronjhall · Feb 16, 2006

I would ask the dealers to bring the machines out to your place to try them out.
I did this when I bought my front mower. Frist thing I found out was that the ZTR's will beat me up on rough ground.
I can cut about 2 acres per hour with my 60" front mower. Top speed is 7 mph.
My pick would be the Kubota . Because they are the closest good dealer to my home. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bontai_Joe · Feb 16, 2006

If speed is a top priority, then you might want to check out pro turf cutting equipment like what is used on fairways of golf courses. Deck size up to 70" or wider with multiple decks, mower can be swapped out for a snow plow or blower for winter use. Both Deere and Toro offer top notch stuff.

Gatorboy · Feb 16, 2006

You need a bigger cutting deck. Not sure you need a ZTR, but a 60" or 72" mowing deck will help a bunch.

jcmseven · Feb 16, 2006

Clarkie,

I was surprised to find myself that the ZTR I owned did not mow that much faster than a John Deere X595 that I replaced it with. In my area, it is quite hilly and the terrain is difficult. ZTR's do not sell well here for that reason. Before I moved here I lived in an area of our state that had rolling hills, nothing too steep, but varied terrain. I had a Gravely P260Z, which I think is one of the better ZTR's on the market. It was fast, comparably fast, if not faster, than my neighbor's JD 757. I bought an X series 595 diesel with a 62" deck. It would mow withint 5-10 minutes as fast as my Gravely on almost all my mowing, and would mow better on really hilly terrain. Granted, I mow for look, not purely for speed, so provided I could have stood the ride, I could have mowed faster (a little) with the Gravely, but the difference was not huge. I also had the versatility of a small tractor when done mowing. I think you would be surprised how many uses you might find for an efficient tractor like that, even though you already have a larger one. I do not know a great deal about the other brands, but I can say the JD 595 I had would fit the bill nicely. I have nothing against ZTR's, but a few minutes here or there on your own property might not matter quite as much as it would to a commercial mower.

John M

klm · Feb 16, 2006

Sorry but I'm not buying that, no way a tractor mower of comparable size can out mow a good ZTR, hills or no hills.
I base that on owning two ZTRs, a Grasshopper and a Bush Hog
both 61".

Spiffy · Feb 16, 2006

If there are no obstacles and really rough ground, I can see a tractor style mower keeping up with a midmount ZTR.

Else, the ZTR is going to win; once you have a Z, it's amazing the obstacles you didn't realize you have.

Of course, a front mount ZTR (like the 700 series grasshoppers) combines many of the best features of both worlds; but the price is nasty.

Sounds like you need a couple dealers to bring out a demo! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Just judging from your hills and bumps description, I think the Ferris w/IS would be fun to try.

clarkie · Feb 16, 2006

Good feedback all way round. Much appreciated everyone!

I do have a fair amount of trees, 4 out buildings including the house and barn, and lots of mowing up against paddocks, so I suppose obstacles are an issue. Most of the runs are relatively short, so there is a lot of changing direction.

I should have mentioned my budget is around $9,000 to $10,000 give or take. It could be stretched for the perfect machine.

Spiffy, what is the advantage of a front mount vs mid mount?

clarkie

jcmseven · Feb 16, 2006

klm,

Sorry to say that what I found is what I found. Bear in mind that I did not say the tractor "outmowed" the ZTR. The ZTR WAS faster, just not by as much as I thought it would be. It simply was not the "half the time" I frequently hear advertised and touted. There are several contributors also. First, the areas I mowed were not flat, and they were largely free of obstacles and were fairly bumpy. This set the advantage more in favor of a tractor style machine than it might have been otherwise. I truly loved my ZTR; the only reason I sold it was to have something with a bit more versatility. I mentioned this primarily to let our initial poster know there are other options, particularly if he has unusually hilly terrain, or rough terrain. In my current locale, even the pro mowers use tractor or front cut type machines, mainly because ZTR style mowers do not do as well on the degrees of slope here. Our local green dealer recently sold 4 X585 tractors to a local university for grounds upkeep. What did they replace: two 757 ZTR's and an old 935 front cut. The primary reason for the change was the fact the ZTR's were not as efficient on steep slopes and changing direction on irregular terrain. They also could not plow snow well in winter, till the flower beds, tow the large trailers the school owned, spread mulch and salt when needed, operate PTO generators, etc. Where I lived before, 9:1 ZTR's for the pro's. I want to make it clear I am not against ZTR mowing. I think it is an excellent concept and having had one I have rarely enjoyed mowing so much, but I do not believe in all circumstance are they the clear choice. If a ZTR is a choice for our poster, I would also encourage him to look at the Gravely ZTR. It is an excellent, commercial level machine that I found to be a top notch ZTR.

John M

jcmseven · Feb 16, 2006

Clarkie,

Spiffy makes an excellent point. The front cut ZTR's are nice too, and might add some ease of trimming because the mower is outfront, so it can go under things easier. They also are easier to trim with because the deck is outfront. The other nice advantage is that the deck is wheel supported to some degree. Most mid mount ZTR mowers have a suspended deck, which is fine, but can scalp if the terrain is highly irregular or if you buy a larger cut deck. The front mounted, wheeled deck make scalping a bit less of a problem. Grasshopper, for example, has made these type mowers a long time, and they have a good reputation. To me, their machines have a bit too industrial a look and feel, but that's just me. They have excellent engine and tranny options and are really durable.

John M

Spiffy · Feb 17, 2006

John pretty much described them from A to Z. The weight distribution can also help the ride over bumps and control on hills. The only drawbacks I know of are overall length (I think the midmounts leave more room on mowing trailers) and extra price (20 or 30%?).

Your budget should be fine with most midmount machines or the 727 Grasshopper.

These guys list prices for both 'Hoppers and CC Tanks:
Commercial Mowers
One of their salemen posts TBN frequently.

Despite the extra cost, if you're looking at the 'Hoppers, I'd test out a frontmount. The Ferris would be a good trial for the suspension. The Tank (Kubota too?) with pivoting front axel. Then a solid frame JD or Bob-Cat. All sorts of other considerations (deck design/construction, transmissions..........), but assuming the bumps and hills to be your challenges the ride and handling is an easy thing to test!

JasonH · Feb 17, 2006

A budget of 9k-10K$ puts you into the major leagues. For that much money get a dedicated ZTR with a diesel.

bontai_Joe · Feb 17, 2006

Here are some of the type of mower I was recommending:
http://www.toro.com/golf/mower/trim/gm300/328.html

http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/GC/series/GC_front_mid_series.html

ronjhall · Feb 17, 2006

If that is $9,000 to $10,000 Canadian. You are going to find it hard to get a Diesel for that price. If you ground is hilly on 20% grade I would not want to be using a ZTR. You need 4WD. Front mowers made by JD and Kubota will fit this requirement. But price will be twice your budget. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif As has already been mentioned you may be better off with a Subcompact like a BX2230 with a 60" MMM.

Spiffy · Feb 17, 2006

$$$$ Canadian? That changes the things a bit.

With that many obstacles, I really think it's worth trying a ZTR first. I can really imagine that 727 (or even 723, or 718 if available with bar-tread and wide rear-end [maybe the single wheel is fine for you?] to span the hills) Grasshopper doing well, but that's probably $$$$$ Canadian. The Ferris might be a good compromise, but I have no first hand info on it.

Also, that Cub Cadet M54 should have a 54" cutting deck, but maybe they have configurations where a 60" fits?

clarkie · Feb 17, 2006

Sorry,

Should have mentioned the Canadian Funds thing. It does sound like many in the group think front mount might be worth the extra investment.

Leaning towards the "Grass Hopper". The mid mount was the cheapest of the list posted above, so I assume front mount will be competitive as well. (although Gravely looked nice on website...have not determined price yet)

I hesitate to get a sub compact; to much over lap with my compact and to many changes in direction.

We have lots of snow up here currently, so test drives are out of the question until spring. Hope to have a tight list of alternatives by then.

All of your comments have been greatly appreciated. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

clarkie

TwinWillows · Feb 17, 2006

Every location mowed has different needs. Our place is basically flat but not smooth. We have about 30 acres of which we mow about 8 regularly - around the house, shop, lane & peach orchard. We started with a 25hp 48" deck garden tractor & it was taking over 8 hrs for just the 4ac around the house & shop & lane. We quilckly unloaded the GT & bought a Dixie Chopper ZTR - 25 hp 60" deck & have never regretted it. For us we'd NEVER go back to a GT to mow with! As other's have recommended, try out some commercial ZTR's & see how they work.

gates · Feb 17, 2006

Clarkie,
If your major concern is time. What ever you decide, mid or front mount, with that kind of acreage get a 72" deck. Every 5 passes with the 72" gets you one 60" pass free! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ron

klm · Feb 17, 2006

I expect to see some day a super heavy duty 8' or maybe 15' ZTR for use by the highway departments. Don't see why that would be any great trick to build them, and I would trust them more on those steep slopes than a tractor.

Spiffy · Feb 17, 2006

If there are no tight spots to get between and the ground isn't too rough, the wider deck does come out with simple math [actually even a little better if you figure running the same overlap with either].

But if it compromises the manuverbility, or exagerates scalping, the widest deck isn't always the best choice. Won't say not worth a try, only that it is possible to pay more [for a wider deck] and not gain any time.

Too bad the snow is preventing tests. So many good options! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif