Muffler in the dirt? Will it work?

   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #1  

nate_m

Silver Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
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142
Location
South West OHIO
Tractor
JD 2520
Tractor fumes used to put more carbon in soil


Thursday, 18/09/2008
A grain-growing family in south west New South Wales is taking a different approach to try to improve the health of the soil.
This season, the owners of Trentham Cliffs Station captured their tractor exhaust fumes and sowed it with their seed.
Daniel Linklater says the practice originated in Canada and is believed to put more carbon into the soil.
He says the family has a trial paddock testing different sowing treatments, and this will help determine if the initiative has paid off.
"That was all sown at the same rates under the same circumstances on the same rainfall and just to look at it now you wouldn't notice the difference, that's just above the ground," he says.
"Below the ground we believe there are several advantages, and, of course, harvest time is when we'll really get the results."
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #2  
Crazy!

jb
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #3  
there was a piece on that in the farm show magazine a few months back, someone converted a big JD to inject exaust gases into the ground along with the grain drill... I think they said that it adds nitrogen to the soil...

Aaron Z
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #4  
Aren't there a lot of other by-products coming out of that exhaust stack? Unburned fuel, petroleum distillates. Things like that? Wouldn't be able to call that organic farming I would think.:confused:
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #5  
Since Diesel exhaust is composed of a mixture of many different toxic chemicals, including human carcinogens, I am at a loss for a response to this seemingly "brilliant" idea.

The only thing I can think of is they are going to argue that the chemicals are going to end up in the ground either way?
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #6  
Maybe they are burning bio-fuel.
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #7  
The only thing I see is that if it puts carbon in the ground it will raise the PH of the soil. Doing this instead of putting lime down. But just how much is going in the ground and what kind of effect does/will it have?
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #8  
I am not sure how they go about doing this. It seems to me like it would creat a lot of back pressure and heat and damage your engine. I'm sure its more than just sticking your exaust pipe in the ground but it sounds like a lot of restriction. I bet it would be a lot quieter.
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #9  
there was a piece on that in the farm show magazine a few months back, someone converted a big JD to inject exaust gases into the ground along with the grain drill... I think they said that it adds nitrogen to the soil...

Aaron Z


I was about to say the same thing about Farm Show. I was thinking it said they had been doing this for several years with supposed success and I was thinking they said it added nitrogen.
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #10  
Hiya,

I think they must have read a book from the 17 or 1800's where it talked about putting "exhaust" into the soil to improve crops, however, back then they meant "horse exhaust" :rolleyes:

My 2 cents,

Tom
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #11  
Since when does seeds need CO2? I thought they need oxygen and water to start growing. That's why you don't deep plow all the time. It brings old seed (weeds) back up to the top. :confused:
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #12  
Found this on the net:

CHARACTERISTICS OF DIESEL EXHAUST

Diesel fuel is a mixture of many different hydrocarbon molecules. The combustion, both complete and incomplete, of diesel fuel forms a complex mixture of hundreds of organic and inorganic compounds in the gas and particle phases.

Gaseous Components of Diesel Exhaust:

Carbon dioxide
Oxygen
Nitrogen
Water vapor
Carbon monoxide
Nitrogen compounds
Sulfur compounds
Low-molecular-weight hydrocarbons

Toxicologically Relevant Gaseous Components:

Aldehydes (formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, acrolein) :eek:
Benzene :eek:
1,3-butadiene :eek:
Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)
Nitro-PAHs

Particulate Component of Diesel Exhaust (Diesel Particulate Matter - DPM):

Elemental carbon
Adsorbed organic compounds
Small amounts of sulfate, nitrate, metals, and other trace elements

Toxicologically Relevant Compounds Adsorbed on DPM surfaces:
(PAHs and their derivatives are adsorbed on the surface DPM
(Figure 1)
Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons
Nitro-PAHs
Oxidized PAH Derivatives

(For in-depth analysis of these DE components, go to this link: http://oaspub.epa.gov/eims/eimscomm.getfile?p_download_id=36255 )

The components of diesel exhaust (DE) emissions are a public concern for the following reasons:

* Emissions from diesel engines include over 40 substances that are listed by the EPA as hazardous air pollutants.
* Components of DE contain potential cancer causing substances such as arsenic, benzene, formaldehyde, nickel, and PAHs. :eek:,:eek:,:eek:,:eek:,:eek: !
* The diesel particulate matter (DPM) is very small (90% are less than 1um by mass), making DPM easy to respire into the deep lung.
* DPM has hundreds of chemicals adsorbed to their surfaces, including many known or suspected carcinogens. :eek: !
* There are many irritants and toxic chemicals in the gaseous phase of DE.
* Oxides of nitrogen, component of urban smog, are in the gaseous phase of DE.
* There is a likelihood that people in both ambient and occupational settings can be exposed to DE.
* DE has the potential to cause adverse health effects including cancer, pulmonary and cardiovascular diseases.
* Studies show workers exposed to higher levels of DE are more likely to develop lung cancer.
* In 1990, the state of California identified DE as a chemical known to cause cancer.
* The International Agency for Research on Cancer has concluded that DE probably causes cancer in humans.
* The EPA has proposed classifying DE as a probable human carcinogen. :eek:

Despite all of these concerns, it is difficult to understand the nature of DE and to measure the exposures from DE and it壮 health effects with certainty. DE is only one of various sources of particulate matter and gaseous air pollution in the atmosphere and workplace. Though the evidence is persuasive that DE has the potential to cause adverse health effects, there are uncertainties. There are gaps and assumptions in the data about human exposures to DE. An assessment of how the physical and chemical nature of past exposures compare to current exposures is not possible since available data are not sufficient. Also, much is not known about DE toxicity and carcinogenicity in humans. DE exposure could have synergistic or additive behaviors occurring with exposures to other air pollutants. More definitive data and more research is needed to improve our understanding of the nature of DE, DE exposure, and potential human health effects to DE. And finally, it is difficult to assess DE exposure because of improvements in engine design, fuel grade, and emissions technology relating to the nature of DE.
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work?
  • Thread Starter
#13  
So it seems that, at the very least, there are some things in DE (Diesel Exhaust) that are beneficial to the soil and plants.
And there are obviously some things in DE that are harmful to the soil, plants and animals also.
But if you follow the argument that all (or at least most) of the stuff we put into air ends up back in ground (via rain, wind, etc.) then why not accelerate and focus the process where it will do the most good.

I don't know how closely this relates, but the areas of my lawn where I spread the ashes from the fireplace are much greener and healthier than the untreated areas. Thus, in my mind, combustion bi-products must have some beneficial properties.
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #14  
So it seems that, at the very least, there are some things in DE (Diesel Exhaust) that are beneficial to the soil and plants.
And there are obviously some things in DE that are harmful to the soil, plants and animals also.
But if you follow the argument that all (or at least most) of the stuff we put into air ends up back in ground (via rain, wind, etc.) then why not accelerate and focus the process where it will do the most good.

I think that's it in a nut shell.

I suspect the environmental movement is the only big gainer in this.

I would be surprised if there is much of an effect on the plants, considering the size of the land, compared to the volume of exhaust.

The guy that farms the 40 behind me, pulls a rig about 20 feet wide. That's a long way to spread the exhaust. Its not anhydrous ammonia.
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #15  
The only thing I see is that if it puts carbon in the ground it will raise the PH of the soil. . . .

Actually, Deerkid, it would LOWER the pH! Particulate carbon (unburned/black soot) would be pH neutral, but any CO2 that remained in the soil would tend to combine with moisture to form a very dilute H2CO3 - carbonic acid/soda water, lowering pH. All those unburned hydrocarbon products would just be 'crud' (a HIGHLY technical term) left in the soil. As a (retired) chemical engineer, I'd have to see quite a bit of research data before I'd sign on:confused:
 
   / Muffler in the dirt? Will it work? #16  
Not sure if appropriate or not, but a little hijack. They are finding Atrazine in lakes around the north woods miles from farm land. They are thinking maybe it is being picked up by wind and evaporation and returned as rain on distant lake in amounts that are not harmful (according to some standard) but still measuable.
 

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