40-55hp CUT or Utility Tractor for 20 acre horse farm in Michigan

[N80]

A couple thoughts:

I agree that a lot this decision is based on the possibility of using round bales, which we might never do. However, after thinking about this, I realize that even if I forget about round bales, I would still need nearly as big a tractor for (1) the 6' brush hog, as it appears I need a fair bit of tractor weight for this and to my surprise it looks like cutting tall grass demands more PTO hp than cutting brush, and (2) there's a lot of other FEL work we want to do - basically moving rocks and dirt, large quantities of both - that could be done in smaller bites but will take less time in big bites. Basically it seems that I could go down as low as 35hp if I wanted to, but I may get some benefit from staying more in the 45hp range.

I was also surprised to find that thick grass put more of a load on my rotary cutter than brush. But, my 45 hp L4400 handles thick grass and brush with no trouble at all. In fact, I've used a heavy duty pull type mower with no problems as well.

As far as moving rocks and dirt, there aren't really any buckets in the utility and CUT market that are going to have a huge impact on your workload simply in terms of bucket size. If you will actually be moving quantities of dirt across any distance at all, a bucket simply will not do. I get sand out of my creekbed for my roads and it is a long tedious task just using the bucket. If the bucket were 4 times larger it wouldn't make a major difference in terms of road maintainence. A dump trailer, wagon or truck is almost a necessity for this sort of thing. A larger bucket would certainly help you load a trailer quicker though.

I haven't heard of the little trailers you mention for moving round bales. A link would be very helpful.

Here is a link. This one can be pulled by a truck, presumably on road as well. It has electric brakes and is pretty expensive. I suspect a simpler offroad version would cost less.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/detail.asp?pcID=4&paID=1029&sonID=78&page=1&productID=16551

 

[Z-Michigan]

Well, again, I appreciate all comments. But I have to note two things:

1) Your L4400, although basic, is fairly powerful with 44net hp and 37.5 pto hp. So I would expect it to swing a 6' hog easily. The most powerful tractors still on my list are around 45 pto hp, not a huge jump.

2) I have to disagree on bucket size and FEL capacity. Using the FEL may not be as good as having a slip scraper and a dump truck, but you work with what you have. The L4400 and smaller Lxx30 series have a 10 cubic foot bucket; the L5030 has 13; and the M5040 with LA1153 has a 20 cubic foot bucket with lift capacity to match. So if I'm going to a given job with the FEL, I can do it in half the trips with an M5040/LA1153 vs. an L4400 or L3430. With a full time job (and I'm sure you have one too) it makes a big difference whether a weekend task is going to be 6 hours or 12.

At this point I really wish I could get a small utility (M5040 or TC48) with HST. I don't really see anything right there - the L5030 is close but I don't like its ergonomics, especially the "treadle" HST pedal and having both HST and brakes on the same side. It looks like my decision will come down to capability/value (utility) vs. HST.

 

[john_bud]

Well, again, I appreciate all comments.

snip

At this point I really wish I could get a small utility (M5040 or TC48) with HST. I don't really see anything right there - the L5030 is close but I don't like its ergonomics, especially the "treadle" HST pedal and having both HST and brakes on the same side. It looks like my decision will come down to capability/value (utility) vs. HST.

Z,

I have used the Kubota boomerang for about 7 years now and have some input for you. First, on the brakes. You may be thinking about old time tractors where you had to stand on one brake to be able to turn around in a tight circle. The Kubota front end had remarkable turning ability. I have not had any situations where using a "turning brake" was even a thought. I did, however, practice the maneuver using the cruise control and it is pretty easy. Sounds clunky, but really isn't. Just put on the cruise and hit a brake.

Next, on the boomerang, Initially I thought that the standard 2 peddle was superior. After all, that's what is on my lawn mower. But it isn't (for me anyway). For everything but FEL work, the right heal is on the deck and the ball of the foot is on the top part of the peddle. Very ergonomic feeling. To back up, I move my foot and put the heal on the bottom of the peddle. Going over bumps, lumps branches and rocks has never impacted my ability to hold the speed steady. (within reason!).

For FEL work or quick forward/back movements, I then put the whole foot on the boomerang. Toe pressure to drive into a pile of dirt, flick the wrist to fill the bucket while easing back the ankle slowing the forward motion to match the bucket fill, then down with the heal backing away while the bucket is brought to transport height. I've run the Deere 2 peddle HST and it is slower and for me, more tiring having to pick up my leg and move it over to the back peddle several thousand times in a 12 hour day.


jb

 

[N80]

Z-Michigan, you are right about bucket capacity in simple terms. My point is that for jobs that require you to move a lot of dirt, doing it with a bucket takes forever. Twice the bucket capacity takes half of forever. In other words, for patching roads, 10 cubic feet is a literal drop in the bucket. Twenty cubic feet is two drops in the bucket. See what I'm saying? And the difference between 10 and 13 will barely be noticeable.

I understand that if you were on the clock, loading a dump truck, twice the cubic feet will make a big difference on a day in and day out basis. But that is not typically the kind of work most of us do. If you are filling the bucket, then driving a ways, then dumping and then going back, well again, its a matter of forever vs forever x 2. Just my opinion, no more.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Z-Michigan, you are right about bucket capacity in simple terms. My point is that for jobs that require you to move a lot of dirt, doing it with a bucket takes forever. Twice the bucket capacity takes half of forever. In other words, for patching roads, 10 cubic feet is a literal drop in the bucket. Twenty cubic feet is two drops in the bucket. See what I'm saying? And the difference between 10 and 13 will barely be noticeable.

I understand that if you were on the clock, loading a dump truck, twice the cubic feet will make a big difference on a day in and day out basis. But that is not typically the kind of work most of us do. If you are filling the bucket, then driving a ways, then dumping and then going back, well again, its a matter of forever vs forever x 2. Just my opinion, no more.

I hear you! I suspect that you are assuming that my plans are either more dirt or more distance than what I'm really planning. In any case, I'll find out when I start work in 2-3 months!

 

[Z-Michigan]

Z,

I have used the Kubota boomerang for about 7 years now and have some input for you. First, on the brakes. You may be thinking about old time tractors where you had to stand on one brake to be able to turn around in a tight circle. The Kubota front end had remarkable turning ability. I have not had any situations where using a "turning brake" was even a thought. I did, however, practice the maneuver using the cruise control and it is pretty easy. Sounds clunky, but really isn't. Just put on the cruise and hit a brake.

Next, on the boomerang, Initially I thought that the standard 2 peddle was superior. After all, that's what is on my lawn mower. But it isn't (for me anyway). For everything but FEL work, the right heal is on the deck and the ball of the foot is on the top part of the peddle. Very ergonomic feeling. To back up, I move my foot and put the heal on the bottom of the peddle. Going over bumps, lumps branches and rocks has never impacted my ability to hold the speed steady. (within reason!).

For FEL work or quick forward/back movements, I then put the whole foot on the boomerang. Toe pressure to drive into a pile of dirt, flick the wrist to fill the bucket while easing back the ankle slowing the forward motion to match the bucket fill, then down with the heal backing away while the bucket is brought to transport height. I've run the Deere 2 peddle HST and it is slower and for me, more tiring having to pick up my leg and move it over to the back peddle several thousand times in a 12 hour day.
jb

Thanks. I'm probably getting down to peculiar personal issues here. A couple things: first, while it seems like it would be handy to use brakes for turning in really tight areas, that's not my main concern. My main concern is if I want to drive right up to something then stop with one inch precision, using left foot braking will let me do that. I know that HST will come to a stop when you let off pedal, but it doesn't seem to do so with 1" precision. My particular thought here is in moving a large number of large rocks, where I want to drive up til just touching, then stop, look closely at FEL bucket (or forks) angle and height, and then inch forward. I would like to be able to hit the brakes and stop right when FEL is touching or within an inch of the rock, and definitely without crashing into the rock and possibly damaging stuff.

Second, on boomerang pedal. I can see how it would be faster. In my test drives I had trouble getting precise control with whole foot on pedal, so I was moving from just ball on pedal to just heel on pedal. Problem for me is I have huge feet and between size and location of pedal I'm having trouble with it. No such problem with double pedal setup on other brands, even though that setup may be slower for people with more normal feet. Again, this is down to personal preference and intended use. I'm not saying that Kubota's design is inferior in general, just it seems to be for my personal use.

 

[RFB]

Z,

If precision is one of your sought qualities do not understimate the K HST. With the 853 loader and grappled bucket, I have done exactly what you described with huge boulders. With pallet forks, I have rolled up to semi's (delivering at the ranch) and offloaded heavy loads with absolute control. The same with 3000lb sod pallets.

And small houses:



Granted, the weight of this was only around 1800, but control (for balance) was an absolute requirement. In the last 206 hours of use(total hours on this tractor this year), I have touched my brakes twice. Neither time was on any critical load; both were backing down a steep hill where I had already stopped and was holding brake to prevent slow (1/4 inch at a time) creep.

In everyday use the brakes could just as well be absent.

 

[BarryinMN]

While I obviously don't own one, I have run many hydros from 20 HP compacts through skid loaders up to giant combines. I have never noticed a substantial whine from them.

The two I remember distinctly was a midsize cab Bobcat new and a JD4200 CUT with about 500 hours on it. I realize hydro machines should be run at full power all the time. I'm from the old school that uses enough power to get the job done. Tooling around on the tractor doing loader work, disc, cultivating, I run 12-1400 rpm's. The lawnmower is a JD455 hydro I do run full power when mowing. Hydro noise is only noticeable when pulling a trailer up slopes at partial power.

Z-mich - A rock bucket with a grapple will leave the dirt behind when picking larger rocks.

 

[john_bud]

Z-

Only you know what is most comfortable for you. Go with that! Also, I never thought that you (or me for that matter) were inferring that one system is inferior. They just have different control philosophies that appeal to different people for different reasons.

On controlled stops; You just go barreling up to a wall at full speed and let off the peddle, stops at the wall every time. Might be a bit harsh.... (joke) I do get 1" control and better. Just slow down and barely carress the peddle and you can make the tractor move in 1/16" increments. The brakes are not used at all. I am assuming that all HST's allow this.

Barry does have a point on the pump sound from an HST. I do use mine at lower throttle often and it is more noticable then. But, I wear hearing protection all the time, so it doesn't bother me. May be a point to concider on the various machines.

jb

 

[Z-Michigan]

Z-mich - A rock bucket with a grapple will leave the dirt behind when picking larger rocks.

That's a pretty impressive rock (not to mention bucket and tractor). Do you know approximately what a rock that size weighs? We have about 20 of those to rearrange. Not sure I can justify buying a special rock bucket for that task, but I'd like to know what weight I'm looking at.