My GC1720TLB is a POS. Buyer Beware!!!!

[Coyote machine]

I don't know MF tractors, so I can only ask a question about how the loaders are sold. For instance, Kioti often includes a 'free' loader with certain tractors, BUT they are ALL covered by a separate 1 year warranty, as are most all other attachments, like backhoes, etc.

So does MF include the loader and consider it part of the tractor's warranty, OR do they separate it and give it it's own warranty time frame?

And, to the weld in question, I'm NOT a welder, but, I say that what can be seen of that particular weld; it failed miserably. Why? It seems to have not fused with the loader support piece from which it is clearly detached, not torn or jagged or split in any way, from what is evident in the one pic.

This much I do know about welds; done properly they fuse two surfaces together by melting them and then bonding while cooling. To break a good weld it would take tearing the weld apart and destruction of one or both pieces of metal that were fused together when the weld took place. None of what I described is evident in the picture.
Bad weld, result of material or workmanship failure or a combination of each. OP should be given a new loader or at a minimum a new support piece for the side that failed. Last, but not least fix might be a reweld of existing structure, IF that is specified in the manufacturer's warranty remedies section.
Best practice by the manufacturer/dealer would be to attempt to make the OP happy/whole and replace the entire loader frame/structure.

I don't see as being relevant how the OP uses his tractor. It's not a toy, it's a tractor, designed to be used to 'load' materials in the loader and run attachments like a hoe.

The one place I might disagree with the OP is high range use. I don't know if his machine has H, M, L, or just 2 ranges, one of which is H? I can speak to this on my Kioti. 3 ranges, H, M, L. Low for serious slow work. Medium for just about everything else. H for moving on a road for instance, but not for doing much else, and definitely not for going up hills or running a mower, etc. Can't speak to what his friend's Deere can do in H, but I would guess the use of H on the Deere is probably best suited for what I described above.

I also doubt the tractor is a total POS as described; I would bet that with the right attention to the details his tractor can be 'redeemed' so to speak, and he can then get many years of use from it. It is possible he may be suited to a bigger tractor in whatever brand he might chose. Sometimes the size matters in terms of what the OP needs done, and it may just be somewhat undersized for the tasks at hand.

 

[AxleHub]

AxleHub said: . . . .

I say: it is one of the most obvious poor welds any of us will ever see on a major manufacturer's tractor. Very clearly from the picture the weld DID NOT melt the metal on one side of the weld. An obvious manufacturing defect if there ever was one. "Shear tear" of a weld is a strange invention grasping at straws. There is no plausibility argument how you get clean shear in this situation. Call it what it is -- a very bad defective weld.

. . . . .

JWR, if the picture Stlmatt posted is a stellar example of a manufacturing defect "if there ever was one" - "a very bad and defective weld"; then how do you explain it didn't fail in the first few hours of use? Lets just look at your logical path:

1. the failure is in a spot of high stress and leverage issues.

2. we know from Stlmatt's prior posts of 2 years ago and now - that he works his tractor heavily. Its primary uses are not for lightweight activities like pulling a cart or cutting the lawn.

3. So if that picture proves its merely a horrible and obvious example of a very poor weld that never got metal to puddle (if there ever was such an obvious example) - and its in a high stress location - such a blatant example as you claim it is - should have failed in the first couple hours of heavy use.

4. But it did not fail then. In fact this "obvious example of a defect "if there ever was one" - didn't fail in the first 20 hours of heavy use - or 40 hours of heavy use - or 100 or 150 or even after 200 hours of heavy use.

So logic isn't supporting that the weld never puddled or puddled very little. In that particular location - all the leverage of the fel and its payloads and impacts is focused on that weld location and the matching one on the other side of the tractor. Merely raising the fel one or two times would have exceeded stress loads if the weld was so faulty as you indicate. In effect - you're describing a weld that would have been inferior to a simple "tack weld". So logic would dictate some other considerations. Here are a few:


A. The photo is not showing the true weld damage.

B. Or the Metallurgical composition and alloys of the components was not correct.

C. Or some damage occurred to the tractor in a collision or roll over or ???? (I'm not saying this happened)

D. Or a "shear tear" created a force not planned for in engineering the pieces - that caused all the stress to be focused on one specific point or spot and not dispersed across the surrounding pieces. Examples are acid or salt oxidation or rust or a laser cut or mis-alignment of pieces or very large sudden temperature changes (dry ice type effects or a fire) or torque settings not correct in combination with mis-alignment or bolts fall out or shear off and the fel arm starts to collapse very quickly.


My point in my prior post was that a terrible weld in a key location with a lack of any puddling could cause such a straight line crack with no visible metal ripping - but that to do that after 230+ hours of heavy use is not a reasonable assumption of certainty. And a stress tear is not an "invention grasping at straws". You see them in bridges and cranes and earthquakes etc. etc.. My point all along is that STLmatt's problems seem far more likely to have begun when someone improperly assembled and installed/prep setup all the parts at the dealer's location. And from that simple but important activity - it caused numerous problems to develop in this specific tractor.

Again for logic - many of us have GC1700 units and have and are operating them successfully and without similar issue to Stlmatt's unit.
And while Stlmatt may work his tractor in a more contractor type activity - its a tractor and not a flimsy toy.
And while Stlmatt rapidly developed many hours of use - its not exceptional to many others.

In summary - I don't think this is a "Buyer Beware" situation for GC1700's - and hopefully for Stlmatt - if the dealer prep/setup person was at fault - at least Massey is a class act and is getting it fixed so Stlmatt doesn't have to go after the dealer about it. I personally know of someone with a brand new LS, another with a Kubota, and a third with a Deere who all spent too much time over more than a year each for catastrophic type failures/problems caused by dealer service issues. In two of the three cases - they bought Massey units and are happy as can be.

 

[atsah]

I haven't been on this forum long enough to know the history of this tractor and what it has been used for.

I have been reading threads for years on the 1700 series of Tractor's, for anyone to open a thread with "Buyers beware" as if all 1720's are poorly built tractors is completely wrong.

I see people attempting to do things with these small tractors I wouldn't consider doing ever, they are not construction equipment, I don't know what kind of abuse this tractor has taken but It sounds like it has been worked hard.

My guess is, a combination of use and dealer prep are the culprits of this tractors issues.

I bought a NH TC45DA a few years back that was a nightmare for me, I used it to to pull a Tedder, nothing hard about that but it gave me trouble the whole two years I owned it, I blame dealer prep for my issues.

I know many that own the NH and stand by them, you never know, anyone can have bad experience because of poor dealer preparation.

Make no mistake about it, Massey makes fine machinery and so do many others.

 

[Phillip w]

I tried to give everyone a heads up on review on of my massey ferguson 1531. It is a real work of art. I have major system failures repeatedly. Four wheel drive has shelled 3 different times costing about 4000 per rebuild, pto has shelled twice costing about 5500 per rebuild, three point lift has screwed up three different times, and only God knows how many nickel dime problem. Some people suggested I was on here to just bash massey ferguson. Just trying to get the word out. I totally understand your anger and frustration. This is the last massey ferguson i'll own.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

I would just grind , weld and get back to work....

 

[atsah]

I tried to give everyone a heads up on review on of my massey ferguson 1531. It is a real work of art. I have major system failures repeatedly. Four wheel drive has shelled 3 different times costing about 4000 per rebuild, pto has shelled twice costing about 5500 per rebuild, three point lift has screwed up three different times, and only God knows how many nickel dime problem. Some people suggested I was on here to just bash massey ferguson. Just trying to get the word out. I totally understand your anger and frustration. This is the last massey ferguson i'll own.QUOTE]

The only word you have got across is you will never buy another Massey again.. You're tractor having issues doesn't mean all 1531 tractors or all Massey tractors are junk, don't you understand that?

 

[JWR]

No Atsah, Mr. Phillip W does not understand that. He is going to badmouth Massey in every comment he posts. Up one side and down the other. That's his only mission being in the forums. He has done so in several other threads. I think most of us have heard enough of it.

Understand he had a bad experience. OK, Sorry to hear that.

There is a portion of TractorByNet set-up for Reviews. He has not used it. The only review of a 1531 on TractorBYNet showing so far was back in 2012 and it was positive.

I recommend he go use that Review mechanism and quit harping.

 

[cdaigle430]

I will admit I had a few minor issues, including vibration in the drive train the first couple of years. Mine has been paid off for 2 years and I am on my 7th year of ownership....it has been the most reliable machine I ever owned since the last recall was done. Weld repairs a easy to make especially this one, once the welder gets done you'll never have another break like this in this spot again.
I know your angry and or frustrated but hang in there. I really believe that once these things are ironed out, the tractor will be loyal for a looooong time.

 

[Langanobob]

I know this is an old thread and maybe better to let sleeping dogs lie, but the subframe with the defective weld on your tractor has a made in China label on it on my GC1720. I thought the GC1720 was mostly all made in Japan and the US and probably would not have bought the tractor had I known how much of it was made in China. So far no problems with mine but I've only had it a couple of weeks.

Well It's been awhile since my last post, but wanted to update what's been going on with this tractor.
I bought a New GC1720TLB in April of 2015, It has the DL95 loader and CB65 hoe, 48"finish mower. Paid 18K
Current hours 223
So far this machine has spent over 3 months of its life in the shop, I've taken it in 4 times myself and several times I was able to get the dealer to come get it a few times. (had to really ***** and get factory involved to do so)
My first issue was the linkage for the loader control arm came apart and the arm just flopped around, I had to fix it in the field as loader was set on the ground when it broke.
Next I had several hydro leaks and the unit had NO power....the dealer had to come get it twice, they ended up replacing the hydro pump the second trip.
I was so unhappy with the first dealer the factory service rep transferred my warranty to another dealer......something to think about it when buying new....how far is the dealer???, I live just outside the St.Louis area and my closest dealer is still an hour drive:-( Not a big deal unless you have the issues I have had.......I have spent over 12 hours driving and several days off work taking this POS in and or picking it up.
Anyway back to the list of issues.
High range on my machine is worthless, its only good for flat level ground.......I have to mow (48" finish mower) in Low range because it wont go up a small hill in high range.....Dealer told me this just how it is, Live with it.....my friends JD1025 goes anywhere it wants in high range:-(
I can't count how many bolts and things I have tightened/replaced on this machine, every hydro QD/hose has had to be tightened....as if they were installed hand tight...WTF!
I have had the throttle cable replaced once and its now being replaced again because it gets locked up/stiff and wont move without feeling like you are going to rip the lever off....yes I tried lubing it.
The bolt that secures the lower three point hitch arm pin in place fell out, causing the pin for the arms to slide out enough that the left arm was flopping around (another must fix yourself....because I was using it at the time)
Now the latest major issue. I was using the loader to mover some dirt when I heard a loud POP and the tractor almost tipped over, I had a decent amount of weight in the bucket (but it was NOT overloaded or even close to Max weight) the weld from the LH loader support (the part that mounts to the frame of the tractor) broke and the loader tilted causing the tractor to feel unstable....I dropped the bucket ASAP when it happened and I think that's what saved me.
You can see in the picture that its a faulty Weld, it was really one welded in one small spot, 95% of the weld was never really welded.
I couldn't believe my eyes when I looked at it......WHAT a crappy job! So time to load up and make another 2.5 hours round trip to the dealer........when I got there he agreed and was like what the ****!!!!! that's horrible, said I should have it back in a week, they are also going to replace the throttle cable, order the correct bolt for the three point arm pin as well as service the machine.
That's was on 5-23-17, I called today and they are still waiting on warranty approval for the broken weld.......when I asked why is it taking so long, I was told here is the number to AGCO call them myself.....so I did, and I'm still waiting on a return call.
I am amazed at the lack of customer support for this POS, I don't know about most dealers but the ones I've been to are small rural dealer that have little inventory and don't seem to know a thing about these GC1700's.......again I should have went with a JD or Kubota....at least they have dealers close and seem to stock a lot of equipment and parts.
I will say the CB65 Hoe has been great and I do think its better than the other brands......but then again I don't use the hoe very often, I bought a NEW tractor because I didn't want to work on a used one.....well so much for that. If I could have bought this unit for half the price it still wouldn't be a good value.......considering the time I've spent working on it and time in for repairs....I'm sure I'm leaving out a few other issues, but my mind is so mad about it I cant think.

Thoughts? Stl Matt


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[Tompet]

I know this is an old thread and maybe better to let sleeping dogs lie, but the subframe with the defective weld on your tractor has a made in China label on it on my GC1720. I thought the GC1720 was mostly all made in Japan and the US and probably would not have bought the tractor had I known how much of it was made in China. So far no problems with mine but I've only had it a couple of weeks.

Interesting, the prior versions of this model were of Japanese construction. Is it just the loader frame fabricated in China? In any case, QC falls on Massey/Agco to assure buyers. I wonder how many other major manufacturers sub out China fabrication.

As far as the op...no update or other posts since this thread...wonder how it turned out?