My saw is broke....

[xyz123]

The dealer called and said that my saw was done, $11 in parts and labor cost me a total of $110.... They said they had to completely rip the carb apart it was gummed up... I dumped all my old fuel out added the still hp super and about 1 1/2 ounces of stabil and 2 gallon of fresh 93 octane. I will pick the saw up Saturday at the dealer... I hope to have the saw back with no problems...:thumbsup:

Wow :ashamed: and here I thought getting $20 to rebuild carbs plus cost of carb kits $10-$15 usually was pushing it. Yes I remove, rebuild and reinstall and test and tune for $20. Takes about a hour.

New carb has to be close to being cheaper then that price for a rebuild.

 

[Gobblin Tom]

Wow :ashamed: and here I thought getting $20 to rebuild carbs plus cost of carb kits $10-$15 usually was pushing it. Yes I remove, rebuild and reinstall and test and tune for $20. Takes about a hour.

New carb has to be close to being cheaper then that price for a rebuild.

dang I could have shipped it to you and saved money!!!

 

[xyz123]

dang I could have shipped it to you and saved money!!!

I priced a MS361 carb. $110 new. :confused2: Just depends on your dealer sometimes on the cost of things.

 

[Baby Grand]

I guess the dealer needs to buy shoes for his kids too. Sorry it cost so much, but thanks for sharing the results. I think I'll try using the high test for a while. Mine started on the third pull yesterday. No hearing protection and I heard it pop on the the first tug so I knew to switch off the choke. Lots of black smoke for the first minute or two, then it ran clean.

Saw flu
Saw flu
Whatcha gonna do
When your chainsaw
Won't run for you

 

[Baby Grand]

Take the plug out... dry it off and retry. The MS361 becomes flooded very quickly.

Thanks, Papa - I'll remember to try that next time.
It was getting near the end of the day, it was very hot with no breeze, and I was pretty beat having weeded in the garden all day. After tugging on that thing for ten minutes my arms were getting heavy and I figured I was probably asking for trouble if I did get it started, so I put it aside for another day and concentrated on clipping vines and saplings with the loppers until quitting time.

 

[newbury]

Bottom line of this thread is it's better to run your saw just to listen to it than let it sit AND also keep your fuel fresh.
I've got:
Efco 3600
Stihl 21
John Deere CS 62
Stihl 660 w/ DP muffler
Stihl 660 snellerized

The only fuel within about 100 miles is ethanol mix.

After not running them much since last fall (and then draining them before I put them up) and with all new plugs.
The 3600 is clogged and needs carb work or a long set w/ Seafoam
The 21 wouldn't fire till I pulled a lot of fresh mix thru it
The JD CS 52 runs like a Deer
The DP Stihl wouldn't fire till I pulled a lot of fresh mix w/ Seafoam thru it and let is sit for a week
The snellerized 660 just fires briefly after I pulled a lot of fresh mix w/ Seafoam thru it and let it sit for a week

 

[WKTEDDYBEAR]

where is that 110 octane fuel? my 454 GMC gashog would love that! not that I could afford it at 10 miles to the gallon,lol
I always RUN my 2 cycle's out of fuel if their going to sit, same with the generators & SuperA. local Stihl / marine dealer has seen lots of gas related issues this year since 10% ethanol in all gas.
I agree on dumping mixed gas into something else

 

[irwin]

Heard a couple horror stories concerning piston, and rings, burned out by ethanol in small 2 cycle engines.

Hmm, I tried to link another site, but this one won't let me.., oh well here's one anyway.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/161505.htm#post2707100


I bought a case of non-ethanol 2-cycle pre-mix hi-test/oil. There are a few brands out there.

Amazon.com: Arnold Corp 0125638 Oil And Gas Pre-Mix (Pack of 6): Automotive

TruFuel

STIHL Press Office - STIHL Takes the Guesswork Out of Mixing Fuel with STIHL MotoMix? | STIHL USA

 

[irwin]

Seeing I can't link to this one site, I copied and pasted one post without any link, sorry.

Well I have an update, and it ain't good news.....but before I jump into it, I need to re-iterate my hate for ethanol and USLD in fuels..

OK, I dropped it off at a shop that handles and moves a ton of equipment and really sat down with the 2 stroke specialist on site.

I gave him a overview of my maintenance and the symptoms up until the saws no longer running.....he knew exactly what was happening and pointed to a pile of new saws from different manufacturers, that have recently encountered the same symptoms....

Ethanol - that is the evil b*tch that is causing the "hot flashing/scorching of the piston and rings, leaving a flat spot, and loss of compression...

If the saw isn't used on a regular basis, no matter what treatment is added to the fuel (and I use the best from Stihl, red-max or Echo only), the ethanol separates from the fuel and is the first to ignite and burn off when the saw is used again after a seasonal or long duration of non-use. OK, I guess in my case It may have been about 6 months or a little more of non-use, so the ethanol separated from the fuel and scorched the piston and rings upon first use.....

Solution

Part of this touches on what we are discussing regarding octane ratings and because of the ethanol over the years the recommended octane level is now 89, up from 87 from a number of years ago. No harm what so ever using super either (which ranges from 91 octane and higher). Results on that being used varies on the engines, and some 4 strokes run a little cooler with super. Some motors no difference in performance, so in that case its preference and spending more money on gas. This part is subjective and really wont matter in whats really effecting the 2 stroke engines these days. Other than using 89 and the best 2 stroke mixture that is FD rated (more on that), that helps with ethanol separation (but no cure), running your saws (or other 2 strokes more frequently), the only other thing they could think of was to dump the fuel back into the large pre-mix jug of gas and shake it all up to re-mix it and get the ethanol back into the gas mixture.

Now that last part is now more important than ever, and seems like it really needs to be followed when ethanol is used....you forget to do that after a long period of non-use and you can ruin your saw instantly....

draining the tank dry isnt a good idea either, all that metal will be exposed and the ethanol vapors are very corrosive as well.

recourse? I think im screwed here in two saws, not sure what the rebuild will be, only got the call that what was described to me turned out to be exactly what happened....oh joy I feel so lucky LOL

rebuild maybe be more than 50% of new, so it will be a difficult choice and I don't feel like buying new saws and still being at risk of this ethanol crap happening again.....

I guess I should take comfort that the pile of saws they had there, some of the saw were $1500 a piece and they were useless....

I still don't feel to well, when that's what I'm looking at, and in fact I'm very irate about it.....I'm sick and tired of getting the repair bills of the half *** additives that do more harm than good and are just for earmarks in the political back scratching game - but enough of politics....just a re-cap i had to re-boil my diesel truck tank out (basically a new truck) from the damage of USLD (a corrosive beyond acid it would seem) and now ethanol ruining many 2 cycle engines....now that I look back over the years, some of it seems like it was the same symptoms on other 2 cycles motors i had....

well that's its for now, since i don't have an estimate now (tomorrow I will) and what i will do long term going forward.....will update as things move forward or get clearer in choices ( right now they su**)

 

[WKTEDDYBEAR]

yup it trashes all kinds of things, I lose 5 mpg with it in the 81 GMC 3/4t which sucks when I only get 10-12 to begin with.and get extreme knocking ( I think because its to running too lean) on the freeway.it does not have quite as bad an effect on injected engines as on carbureted engines.I have read about rejetting the carb. somewhere to make it run richer for running ethanol.
what I do know for sure is years ago carbureted engines built to run alcohol for racing had much higher compression ratios then gas engines.
and octane ratings on gas are not indication of premium burning hotter.they indicate the anti knock properties of the gas, concentrations of detergent additive were much higher in premium then regular at least till 1999 [when I quit driving tanker] my understanding is premium gas actually does not burn as hot.
ethanol evaporates faster then gas, ethanol absorbs water, when it evaperates the water does not! I have seen a few couple cases of last years gas having water in it, and no detectable ethanol smell.
ETHANOL SUCKS!
and it raises the price of corn which in turn raises the price of beef and what I have seen the farmer is not getting more $$ cause his costs (things like fertilizer) have gone up to grow and harvest the corn.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/12/30/pm_ethanol_kills/

Effects of Intermediate Ethanol Blends
on Legacy Vehicles and Small
Non-Road Engines, Report 1
October 2008
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/int_blends_rpt_1.pdf
"3.2.2 Summary of Results
Open-loop engines tested in this study exhibited the following trends in emissions and
temperatures with varying levels of ethanol.
• As ethanol levels increased, leaner engine operation was observed in all of the tested engines, as
indicated by decreased CO emissions.*
• Temperatures of both the exhaust and engine components increased as ethanol levels increased.
• HC emissions generally decreased with increasing ethanol, although increases in HC emissions
occurred in some engines.
• NOX emissions increased with higher levels of ethanol in all engines; however, combined NOX +
HC emissions (which are regulated as such) were tempered by decreasing HC emissions in most
cases. Net changes of HC+NOX with increasing ethanol ranged from –36% to +41% and were
engine-specific.
• CO emissions decreased with higher levels of ethanol.
• In the case of the 2-cylinder engine tested, temperatures and emissions varied from cylinder to
cylinder due to differences in the air:fuel distribution between cylinders. Given this observation,
multicylinder open-loop engines may prove to be more sensitive to ethanol blends than single
cylinder engines.
• With greater ethanol content, three handheld trimmers demonstrated higher idle speed and
experienced unintentional clutch engagement. The increased speed was again caused by the
fuel:air mixture enleanment,† which can be adjusted and mitigated in some engines"