My theory on Low Ballers

[Cat_Driver]

The auction finished while i was standing there. Top bidder offered 5500, I had 7500 in my hand...and he turned me down and took the ebay bidder.
Weird.

Not weird, but the purpose of this thread. Like in my situation if you piss the seller off it's no longer about money, but it becomes personal. Oh you can say business is never personal, sorry that's nothing more than a lame cliche.

Like I've said here A LOT. The seller needs to like you in order to sell to you. The seller is parting with something he owns for cash. The seller pretty much knows you are getting a deal buying his stuff used, so in other words the seller is doing YOU a favor, as much as you are doing him a favor.

You think it's weird a guy would take less money that what you offered. I think it's weird that you would expect the seller to sell you anything once you pissed him off. Without saying it, I can pretty much guarantee you pissed the seller off some how some way.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I was recently selling a gun. It had about a thousand rounds through it, so it wasn't new, but it was in excellent condition. Because it had been fired, there was some wear on the coating of the piston and other interior parts. There was also some cosmetic damage to the paint on the metal stock. I had marked down for the stock damage.

Anyway, a guy contacts me offering much less than my asking price, talking about what bad shape the gun is in and how much it will cost him to repaint the whole thing. I told him he was flat out wrong on the condition (1000 rounds remember?) and if he wanted to repaint the whole thing, that was his business, but the gun was perfect except for the stock. I won't say that I was insulted, but his claim that the interior wear meant the gun was wore out was so laughable that I really thought he was a bad negotiator. Fire the gun at all and it'll get that wear.

So I told him his assessment of the price was way off, and as proof, another guy had accepted a much higher price than this guy's offer (not quite my asking price) based on photos, assuming there were no surprises when he got there.

What happened next is the guy made a complete 180. He said he loved the gun and wanted to buy it. He offered me $25 more than the other offer and instructed me how I would ship it to him. As if an additional $25 would somehow seal the deal. I have to accept your offer before I ship you the gun, sir!

I sold to the other guy, who didn't jerk me around or ******** me. It cost me $25 and I'm okay with that.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

NOW THIS IS FUNNY......you say " I fail to see the point of this thread" .....THEN you say " my offer of 50,000 was literally laughed at and told me " i will get more than that on the auction"

You pissed off the seller he would rather sell it to a man from Mars for $1.00 than sell it to you for 50K - That's the point.

T-H-A-T-'S T-H-E P-O-I-N-T ( EXACTLY of this thread.) You did something wrong to the seller and you proved it right here and on top of that you were unaware you did something wrong to blow the deal FOR YOU. You left with your tail between your legs. Remember the seller has the power NOT YOU and again - you proved that.

OH SURE you ended up with the deal, but that 's a moot point. The point of the tread is to teach people like you to always walk away with the deal and stop pissing sellers off and go home with your tail between your legs.

It's Low ballers that do not know the ART OF NEGOTIATION. It's about LOW BALLERS who are like bulls in a China shop.
It's about THUG Low ballers who are rude and abusive, It's about Low ballers that don't have Panache.

There is an art to low balling and some here know and have that are other like you sadly don't even know you're bad at it.

It's not about percentages, Firm not firm, offers, etc. it's about the ART OF LOW BALLING to walk away with the deal.

Cat_Driver were did you come up with the idea D7E pissed off the seller? The seller was laughing at D7E over his $50K offer if I read correctly.

The seller was pissed as I read it because he did not take D7E legit offer and left $8000 on the table when the dealing was done. He had it over priced by $18,000 he learned in the end and knew it.

People that get pissed is because they chose to do so. We each have total control our own emotions unless with our free wills we pass that total control to another.

As a note on used vehicle purchases I will only pay the price that will permit me to replace the transmission and still not have more than Low Retail invested in the vehicle. That is not lowballing but self preservation that I have learned over time.

On average I find few underpriced deals for anything. Do I buy over priced items? Yes if it is what I want and the odds are next to zero of me finding on in a timely manner. Buying used is not risk free but to date I find private sellers more honest than dealers.

Like this morning I was asking a seller of a trailer if he had the title and he replied back they are not required in KY. I think it is a private seller but from his email address he works at a dealer. When you live within 40 miles of three other states a title is the only way to prove ownership when out of state or that the seller is actually the owner of the trailer.


I do agree with you one should not work to provoke negative emotions. When I ask the least amount of cash it would take to close the deal on the spot and they say show me your offer in cash they have no reason to be upset if I do not count out as many $100 bills as they would prefer. :thumbsup:

 

[KYErik]

I have sold a fair number of things through craigslist and the newspaper.

When I am selling, I am never offended at a low ball offer like "Would you take .....50% less than you are asking...". I simply tell them "No, not at this point, but I'll hang on to your number and call you back if I haven't sold it in a few weeks and I change my mind".

I get a little ruffled when I have described the shortcomings of my item well and even shown them pictures and offered to email them more pictures, then they show up and say- "Listen, that item is in bad shape and it would only be worth $x". I feel that the person is really just stating their own personal opinion and trying to bully a weak minded seller.

I definitely stay away from buyers who call and say they will pay full price for the item "Sight unseen". I know that they really just want me to hold it for them for a few days- they may or may not ever show up and if they do, they will just find a reason to offer me less money when I have turned away potential buyers for the few days I have been holding it.

I also only sell things "live" and do not accept any type of prepay. I sold some hay a few weeks ago on CL (with close up pics) for $2.50 a bale and a nice polite lady (who said she ran a horse rescue) wanted to western union me the money and pick it up in a few days. I told her that I didn't feel comfortable taking her money before she had a chance to inspect the hay for herself and I wouldn't want her to possibly be disappointed when she came to pick it up.

I do hold items for long distance buyers for as long as they think it will take them to drive to my place (on that day) and tell them to give me a call if something comes up (a flat tire or if they change their mind along the way). I have never had a long distance buyer not show up or show up late but I would call them if back if they were more than a half hour late just to check in with them.

For security reasons, if someone tells me that they can't come to look at the item until tomorrow or the weekend, I don't give out my address/directions until they call back on the day they want to view the item.

 

[joshuabardwell]

For security reasons, if someone tells me that they can't come to look at the item until tomorrow or the weekend, I don't give out my address/directions until they call back on the day they want to view the item.

I have the same policy.

 

[lilranch2001]

A serious offer with cash in hand is a serious offer with cash in hand. Why would that insult you?

because some people are just plain old "sensitive" and get their feelers hurt easily
:confused3:

 

[lilranch2001]

Most are not understanding the main point. Many people have expressed here as I have that we sellers do in fact get offended. So let's leave that out of the equation. My selling price WAS stated on the phone and with the caveat of it being firm as I already lowered it from the asking price.

Yes people have purchased great bargains by low balling.

Here's the point that a few have gotten on this site. There is an art to low balling, that the buyer of my equipment failed at and my starting this thread was to educate the low ballers that do not "get it' As some have suggested there are ways to get to a negotiated price between two people, without insulting the seller.

Now back to the "insulting part " since most are locked on to that point. Yippie for those that do not get insulted, but just because you do not get offended or insulted for the myriad of reasons, does not mean other don't. That's my point !!!!

Isn't it better to walk away WINNING 100% negotiated deals than LOSING 50% because you are "insulting" 50% of the buyers?

Back to my buyer. He lost $1000.00 by pissing me off, ( I'm one of the 50% that get offended by low ballers who do not know how to low ball ) because that's how much more I sold the equipment for a week later.

I hop real world numbers makes my point for me now.

Had my buyers said something like - "what can we do to make this sale happen" " I know you said XXXXX amount firm, but would you consider XXXXX as I can do this or do that and give you this and that" " I respect that you want XXXX amount firm, but if you would meet me here XXXXX at this price etc. "

It's all about attitude and respect. Shot gunning a low ball price does piss "SOME" people off and there's no need for it. If the need it get a bargain my thoughts are find a more pleasant want to accomplish the same low ball goal, but with a better tone and attitude and I thin we will all go home with bargains 100% of the time.

Whether you want to believe it or not sellers like to like the person they are selling to. I stopped liking the guy that low balled me so he wasn't going to leave with my equipment at any price.

Bottom line I made $1000.00 more and he lost $1000.00. It was his job to keep me as HIS friend not me keep him as MY FRIEND.

Oh and pallleeezzzeeeeeee - the word friend is used as a metaphor so please think before you start up and go crazy on the work "friend

Basicly the way I deal with "firm price" sellers is if the ad is remotely questionable re price, I pass it over completely

 

[Gale Hawkins]

We find sellers who want to sell and we find sellers who want to sell at a high ball price. High ballers will get low balled more often than not.

Some sellers only want to sell retail which is OK but if it is a reseller they must buy at 30-40% under retail. If you have an item that would retail for $1000 you are going to see a lot of $700 offers.

Portable buildings that require moving by trailer, etc that cost $3000 set on site and are located 60 miles away 2-3 years later is only worth $1000-$1500 if one hires it moved perhaps. Now if it is 100 foot over on the neighbors place and you can pull it across the line with the tractor that is another story. If it was site built without runners then it is going to need to be raised high enough for a trailer to back under that has the tires below bed level. A tractor that is really worth $3000 must be bought for $2500 to factor for the unknowns.

I think a lot of sellers just do not get that point. Buying from private sellers is NOT without financial risk.

 

[LMan1967]

Funny, Ive got that video "First World Problems" running thru my head :laughing:

 

[Obed]

I had a guy come out over the week end to offer to buy some equipment from me. My price was already on the low side of what the equipment was going for, plus I told him on the phone, I knew he was driving a long distance so I'd back of that for his gas.

He agrees looks at the equipment then offers me almost 50%. I said nope. He came up to only 25% off, again I said Nope, he offered again pretty close to my price, I again said nope. We parted with no sale.

After thinking about the negotiations I could have easily took his last offer as he had cash, and was pretty close to my price, but what I realized is he ticked me off with his low ball offer.

Yes I get negotiations etc Yes, I get why not I may have gone for the low ball. But what low ballers don't get is they are insulting the seller. By low balling me he insulted me and I think at that point I knew I would not sell to him. I made it so difficult for him to buy because he insulted me.

I was fair on my original price even more fair by lowering my price without him even asking, then he has the stones to low ball me.

So I learned something both as a seller and as a buyer. Don't insult the seller. Yes business is business and don't take it personally, but human nature does kick in regardless.

Had his first offer been reasonable I would have done more back and forth and he would have gone home with the equipment. He made it impossible for me to negotiate any further, when in reality I would have, could have, but he will never know.

I agree with the OP that you accomplish nothing by insulting the seller and that insulting the seller can prevent the buyer from making a deal. That seems to be the OP's point if I read the original post correctly.

The OP does not exactly define what a "low ball" offer is so I can only assume. Is a "low ball" offer one that is x% below asking price? Is it x% below retail price? Is it x% below wholesale price? Is it a price that could/would/might insult the seller? Is it an price offered to intentionally intimidate the seller? I'm not really sure.

When dealing with buying and selling stuff, there are basically 4 prices types:
#1. Motivated buyer price (typically the asking price)
#2. Patient informed buyer price (typically a less than the asking price)
#3. Patient informed seller price (asking price or reasonably close to it)
#4. Motivated seller price (much less than prices #1, #2, or #3)

I personally have partaken in all 4 price types. I mostly buy and sell in price ranges #2 and #3. As a rule I try to avoid #1. However, I will often look for #4 prices when purchasing big ticket items when possible.

Examples of my experience with these price types include:
#1. My truck broke down on the interstate 4 hours from home with a failed catylic converter.
#2. Buying something online that I'm not in a hurry to get
#3. Sold our first house during a seller's market
#4. Sold our 5th wheel camper that had some issues and I wanted it gone quickly without much hassle

When I sold our 5th wheel camper, I sold it for almost nothing. We had lived in the camper for over a decade and were ready to end that phase of our lives. We just wanted the camper off our property so I would no longer have to look at it or maintain it. Had I been willing to wait and fix a few things on it, I could have sold it for double the price I gave it away for. I sold it to a younger couple who was building a house and wanted to live on-site while building just as we did. I was ecstatic at selling the camper, even at a "low ball" price. It was a win-win. I openly disclosed all the issues to the buyer but knew our final price was low enough to more than compensate for the issues.

Some people seem to think that selling something at a low price automatically means that someone got taken advantage of. Some people seem to think that buying something at a low price and selling it for a profit is somehow unethical (don't ever trade in your car at a dealer's lot if you feel this way because that's what all car dealer's do). Some people seem to think that obtaining a bargain price means that somebody loses and somebody else wins. I don't necessarily believe any of these things.

Selling something at 50% of retail price can be a win-win for both parties. There's more to valuing an item than just the selling price, such as hassle factor, urgency, etc. With all these intangibles involved, it is really tough to know if your price is a "low ball". Anybody in business for themselves must commonly buy low (materials and/or labor) or they will not stay in business long, especially during a slow market. That's just a fact. Someone who doesn't understand this reality is a bit naive in my opinion.

Regarding insulting the seller, I don't spend too much time worrying about that. I won't intentionally insult someone. However, many people don't really understand how quickly items bought at retail prices depreciate in value by just removing the item off the lot or out of the store. They don't understand that their new $3000 dining room set lost 50% of its resell price the day it left the store. So when you offer them a reasonable price of $1000 three years later they get "insulted". I can't predict or control other people's emotions so I just offer up to the amount the item is worth to me based the price and availability of similar items and how badly or quickly I need the item. If the person gets insulted, I've done nothing immoral or unethical. I'm not trying to get over on them. Some people carry their feelings on their shoulders and I'm not going to lose sleep if it happens.