My Thoughts On Modern Day Tractors

[Jchonline]

What I am exactly looking for is what is being offered in Europe. Kubota is selling the Brits a LX tractor that's a 40hp tractor with 33 PTO hp and offering a front mount PTO. In your own words, "a high HP to weight machine".

LX is the old B50 series. It is a tad larger than a B. Still not that large of a machine. In the US the closest is LX3310 which is 33HP but with emissions equipment you loose a few of those. To me there isn’t much difference between a LX3310 + emissions and a LX2610 without it, unless you are high altitude and need the turbo on the 3310.
I would check the dealer history carefully if you are considering a foreign made and mainly marketed machine. Don’t end up having a service or parts problem down the road.

Yes as Jeff mentioned, the auto hitch on the L60 is very expensive. It is also a pain to remove if you need it off. The target is commercial clients that are using these machines to sweep or move snow Most days of the winter.

 

[Bavarian]

Zuidberg is the most common used system by major manufacturers. It can't be considered aftermarket in that regard.

 

[mo1]

I have been in the market searching for a tractor for 2 years now to use in a turf application. What started out looking like plethora of options has now come to the realty that nothing in the market exactly fits or meets my needs. The problem with the U.S compact tractor industry is all the tractors are built around loaders and lift capacity and not PTO driven implements and horsepower. This design philosophy is totally contrary to the way tractors used to be built. Ford Tractor company came out with the 1000 series tractors in 1967. The 3000 was the compact tractor of that time and went on to become one of the greatest tractors that has ever been built. They are still fetching fairly high prices fifty years later due to their bullet proof design, battle tested reliability and incredible strength and power. Coming from being an owner of one of those tractors I have been surprised and disappointed at the lack of equal offerings in today's tractors. What I have observed is neither John Deere nor Kubota are offering a medium frame size compact tractor with more then 30 PTO horsepower. John Deere has the 3046R and the 3043D but here's the problem: The 3046R is stupid expensive and the 3043D has no live PTO. Some of you will suggest that I look at another brand of tractor and I have but here is what I found when I did that. They were either way away from me and/or the quality, durability, parts support, customer service and resale value were not there. Then there is the issue of not being offered the option to have a front mount PTO like the tractors in Europe have which takes more then 20% of your productivity away. It's obvious that the industry is doing this because they don't want to cannibalize sales on their front-mount mowers but when I looked at those they too were not the right fit for my application. Those machines are made for light duty mowing applications where the turf is well maintained and the terrain is fairly even and smooth. They are not what I would consider a rugged, all terrain machine. The tires are small and the ground clearance is fairly low so getting a machine like that stuck and damaged on a property like mine would not be hard. Zero Turn mowers are wonderful but the problem with them is they only offer rotary cutters, they have no gears or brakes for hill stability and they are also not good for rougher terrain. So if you are looking for a tractor exclusively for a mowing and turf application currently there are none that fit that use type well. It's ironic that the US tractor manufacturers build better tractor solutions for Europe then it does for it's own country. I have included a link to a copy of John Deere's European edition tractor brochure so you can learn and see what is being withheld from us in the US market:

John Deere

I have read your thread and you bring up several different topics.

1. The compact tractor industry is mainly built around providing a machine for grounds maintenance for suburban properties and "hobby farms." If you think of the stereotypical "horse lady" who has a handful of horses on 10-15 acres and needs a little tractor to smooth the driveway, mow lawns and clip pastures, and help unload small square bales (that somebody else made) and landscaping materials from a trailer or pickup truck bed, that's the target market. That results in a fairly lightweight machine on tires that are designed to decrease turf damage, hydrostatic transmissions, to and nearly universally set up with a loader. PTO power is high for the weight as mowing is one of the main applications. Older farm tractors like the Ford 3000 were primarily designed to pull tillage equipment and are much heavier for their power levels than modern compact tractors. They nearly always came with regular gear transmissions, a few oddball IH and Ford units being the rare exceptions. They also nearly always came with ag tires, often fluid filled.

2. You can still get a tractor fairly similar to a Ford 3000 brand new. Note that a Ford 3000 is a much larger tractor than a 3 series John Deere, it's somewhere between a 4 and 5 series in size. A 2WD New Holland Workmaster 50 or its red clone has 6 more HP, is a few inches longer (the measurements in tractordata.com are very wrong) and a few hundred pounds more weight. Deere's 2WD 5045E is slightly larger than the Workmaster but in the same class and actually makes 50 HP and not 45. If you want something a little smaller than the Ford 3000 rather than a little larger, then a Kubota MX5400 2WD will be slightly smaller and a roughly 500 pounds lighter. All of these new tractors have 8 or 9 speed gear transmissions, 2WD, and are open station, and roughly similar size, weight, and power to the Ford 3000.

3. If you want to mow 20 acres of grass that's too rough to mow with a front deck mower or zero turn but you want it to look nicer than if you used a typical rotary cutter to knock it down a few times per year, you have a few options. One, you can continue to clean it up to where it is smooth enough you can use a front deck or zero turn mower and mow it like a giant 20 acre lawn. Or, you could get a big pull behind finish mower and mow it with a tractor. Two, you can use a finer cut flail mower behind a 40+ HP compact or small utility tractor (such as the units I listed above) on industrial or turf tires. Three, a rotary cutter actually does a pretty decent job of keeping things semi-finish mowed if the blades aren't completely trashed and you don't let things get 4' tall before you cut it. I use a rotary cutter to cut the ditches along my 1/3 mile gravel driveway every 3-4 weeks. The cut quality in doing that looks a lot better compared to the field right next to the driveway where I only cut it 3-4 times per year using the exact same cutter. This area is also a little too rough to want to use a finish mower to cut. It appears that this situation is in general what you are dealing with, so I would give that a shot with mowing once a month or so with a rotary cutter if I were you. A 5-6' one with a 30-40 HP tractor (such as one of the 3 series Deeres you mentioned above) would be reasonably sized for 20 acres without being too much of a bull in the china shop if you have anything to mow around. That would certainly be simpler than trying to import some unusual European tractor or getting a very niche machine here in the USA.

4. Regarding PTOs, you can get either a transmission driven PTO, a 2-stage live PTO, or an independent PTO. A transmission PTO has one clutch for both the transmission and the PTO, so when you step on the clutch, everything stops. Some Kubotas and the Deere 3D, as well as a bunch of old tractors have this setup. A 2-stage live PTO is seen on some Kubotas and a bunch of '60s-'80s tractors. Step on the clutch a little and the transmission stops but the PTO keeps turning, step down all of the way and then the PTO stops too. Most new tractors are independent PTO with a totally separate clutch for the PTO and transmission. You can either get an electrohydraulic PTO clutch with a little button you push to engage/disengage the PTO or a mechanical PTO clutch where you have a lever to engage/disengage the PTO. Independent PTOs are the most straightforward to operate but a live PTO can be fine too if you aren't too ham-fisted to mash down on the clutch all of the way all of the time. It would be a bit trickier to operate a transmission-driven PTO with using a PTO-powered implement, in general you don't want to have to stop, change gears, or reverse with the PTO engaged.

 

[rehfuss]

Hello, there

I really appreciate your thoughts.

I am here for, If you are facing problems with your existing gear box and looking for replaced it with high performance & efficiency product then I think Helical gearbox and geared motors is best options.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I have read your thread and you bring up several different topics.

1. The compact tractor industry is mainly built around providing a machine for grounds maintenance for suburban properties and "hobby farms." If you think of the stereotypical "horse lady" who has a handful of horses on 10-15 acres and needs a little tractor to smooth the driveway, mow lawns and clip pastures, and help unload small square bales (that somebody else made) and landscaping materials from a trailer or pickup truck bed, that's the target market. That results in a fairly lightweight machine on tires that are designed to decrease turf damage, hydrostatic transmissions, to and nearly universally set up with a loader. PTO power is high for the weight as mowing is one of the main applications. Older farm tractors like the Ford 3000 were primarily designed to pull tillage equipment and are much heavier for their power levels than modern compact tractors. They nearly always came with regular gear transmissions, a few oddball IH and Ford units being the rare exceptions. They also nearly always came with ag tires, often fluid filled.

2. You can still get a tractor fairly similar to a Ford 3000 brand new. Note that a Ford 3000 is a much larger tractor than a 3 series John Deere, it's somewhere between a 4 and 5 series in size. A 2WD New Holland Workmaster 50 or its red clone has 6 more HP, is a few inches longer (the measurements in tractordata.com are very wrong) and a few hundred pounds more weight. Deere's 2WD 5045E is slightly larger than the Workmaster but in the same class and actually makes 50 HP and not 45. If you want something a little smaller than the Ford 3000 rather than a little larger, then a Kubota MX5400 2WD will be slightly smaller and a roughly 500 pounds lighter. All of these new tractors have 8 or 9 speed gear transmissions, 2WD, and are open station, and roughly similar size, weight, and power to the Ford 3000.

3. If you want to mow 20 acres of grass that's too rough to mow with a front deck mower or zero turn but you want it to look nicer than if you used a typical rotary cutter to knock it down a few times per year, you have a few options. One, you can continue to clean it up to where it is smooth enough you can use a front deck or zero turn mower and mow it like a giant 20 acre lawn. Or, you could get a big pull behind finish mower and mow it with a tractor. Two, you can use a finer cut flail mower behind a 40+ HP compact or small utility tractor (such as the units I listed above) on industrial or turf tires. Three, a rotary cutter actually does a pretty decent job of keeping things semi-finish mowed if the blades aren't completely trashed and you don't let things get 4' tall before you cut it. I use a rotary cutter to cut the ditches along my 1/3 mile gravel driveway every 3-4 weeks. The cut quality in doing that looks a lot better compared to the field right next to the driveway where I only cut it 3-4 times per year using the exact same cutter. This area is also a little too rough to want to use a finish mower to cut. It appears that this situation is in general what you are dealing with, so I would give that a shot with mowing once a month or so with a rotary cutter if I were you. A 5-6' one with a 30-40 HP tractor (such as one of the 3 series Deeres you mentioned above) would be reasonably sized for 20 acres without being too much of a bull in the china shop if you have anything to mow around. That would certainly be simpler than trying to import some unusual European tractor or getting a very niche machine here in the USA.

4. Regarding PTOs, you can get either a transmission driven PTO, a 2-stage live PTO, or an independent PTO. A transmission PTO has one clutch for both the transmission and the PTO, so when you step on the clutch, everything stops. Some Kubotas and the Deere 3D, as well as a bunch of old tractors have this setup. A 2-stage live PTO is seen on some Kubotas and a bunch of '60s-'80s tractors. Step on the clutch a little and the transmission stops but the PTO keeps turning, step down all of the way and then the PTO stops too. Most new tractors are independent PTO with a totally separate clutch for the PTO and transmission. You can either get an electrohydraulic PTO clutch with a little button you push to engage/disengage the PTO or a mechanical PTO clutch where you have a lever to engage/disengage the PTO. Independent PTOs are the most straightforward to operate but a live PTO can be fine too if you aren't too ham-fisted to mash down on the clutch all of the way all of the time. It would be a bit trickier to operate a transmission-driven PTO with using a PTO-powered implement, in general you don't want to have to stop, change gears, or reverse with the PTO engaged.

"It would be a bit trickier to operate a transmission-driven PTO with using a PTO-powered implement, in general you don't want to have to stop, change gears, or reverse with the PTO engaged."

Yeah exactly which makes them completely useless in my book.