Nail guns?

[GlueGuy]

A friend is building a new garage, and thought that a nail gun would speed up the process. He doesn't own a compressor, so his first thought was to use a Passlode portable nail gun. Only issue is that it uses clip-head nails, which may (sometimes) require different nailing schedules.

So, he's going back to looking at regular nail guns that use full, round-headed nails. Anybody have any opinions on these guys? I used a Hitachi that I borrowed from a neighbor last year. It was great, except that once in a while it would "double fire". You could avoid "most" of the double nail shots by holding the trigger down, and "bumping" against the work.

Any other experiences/comments?

The GlueGuy

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Bill,

I have Bostitch and Craftsman Framing guns, and a Craftsman Roof nailer. The Craftsman was a few hundred cheaper then Bostitch and I actually like the "balance" better on the Craftsman. My guns are about 12 years old, and the newer ones have rubberized grips and are lighter and feel even better.

The guns have come down in price tremendously the last 10 years. I don't remember exactly, but I think I paid about $600 for the Bostitch in 1989. The last I purchased a case of 16p nails was about 5 or 6 years ago, somewhere around $45. case?

After he gets a compressor, there's a million other uses for it...

On the corners of his garage, he can use an impact gun and drive lag bolts to secure it, and use the impact gun to bolt down the sole plates to the foundation...

Even though the nails are somewhat costly compared to the old fashion hammer and nail framing method... the time saved is priceless not to mention ... your body feels much better at the end of a 10 or 12 hour day versus swinging a hammer... even if your built like Big John or John Henry...

 

[roysallis]

GlueGuy,
What is the issue with clip-head nails. I am in the process of building a 7000sq. ft. building and started out with a hammer and nails. it did not take me long to figure out I needed a nail gun. I bought a Passlode that will handle up to 3 1/4" nails. If I remember correctly it was in the $300 range. Nails cost about $25 for 2000. I already had a compressor. It sure saved a lot of time and made the work much easier. The nails may be more expensive than regular nails but I am not sure. I bent a lot of nails when using a hammer so if I count the wasted nails and the time to pull the bent nail out they may not be cheaper.

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Glueguy,

I'm afraid I don't understand the problem with clip head nails either. (I have a Bostich finish nailer and find it works for a lot of things.) They still have ears to grab and hold. But, if he really wants round head nails and an inexpensive driver, he needs to look at a "palm" nailer. The last one I saw was at Home Depot (tool department, not nailer department), about $150.00 or so. This is basically a small metal ball with a leather cover. It fits in the palm of your hand and is small enough your fingers can close around it. There is an air connection on the end and a metal tube on the front. Basically, you drop a round headed nail down the tube, head first, press it against the surface to be nailed and trigger the gun. There is a small piston inside the tube that repeatedly hammers at the nail head until it is driven into the wood. I've never actually used one, but people I've talked to say they like them and it's not as hard on your arm as it sounds.

SHF

 

[cowboydoc]

There is absolutely no reason that the clipped head makes any difference at all. My brother is a big contractor out in Idaho and they use the Passlode's all day long. I had asked him about that and he said there was nothing to it. The cordless is definitely the way to go if you don't need greater than 3.25" nails. If you need a little more grip get the ring shanks. NO compressor, cords, etc. After using this one that I have I would never go back to using a corded one.

As far as the palm nailer, NO WAY. I tryed one of those and hated it. By the time you load the nail and wait for this thing to drive the nail you could have driven five nails by hand.

The price on the Passlode is $349. The fuel cartridges are $12.99 for two and last for about 1000-1500 nails. Get a spare battery if you are going to be using it alot. The regular 3.25" nails are $23.99 for a box and the ring shanks are $42.99 for a box.

 

[DVerbarg]

Have used a few different nail guns over the years. Own a finish nailer and a pinner and borrow framing nailers when needed. The Passlode is nice from a cordless perspective but did not like it when working indoors without ventilation, outside it is great. The Passlodes also have a higher price point, assuming that you already have an air compressor (if you don't, you should /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif).

If I were to buy a unit for my limited use I would probably get a pneumatic nailer that is compatible with Senco nails. Sure I'd like a Senco nailer (have contractor friends who have been using the same nailers for decades) but can't justify the extra cost for the Senco name. My finish nailer is an Accuset (cheaper plastic Senco brand) that has seen tens of thousands of nails and can count the number of times that it has jammed on one hand (I believe it was due to using off-brand nails).

Palm nailers are typically used in tight quarters where it is difficult to reach with a hammer or full size nailgun.


DaveV

 

[GlueGuy]

Roy, SHF, & Doc,

The issue with the clip head nails is code issues. Remember we live in earthquake country, and building codes require a nailing schedule, especially for sheer walls.

The holding power of a 8d clipped head is not the same as a 8d round head nail (and other sizes as well). Manufacturers know this, and they have charts you can use to get the correct nailing schedule. For instance, regular 8d nails will get a nail every 6", and a clipped head equivalent is (maybe) every 5" (just threw that out; don't know the exact "schedule").

My bro-in law has a Passlode and loves it. He does a lot of his work out in the woods & off the grid, so not having a gasoline engine compressor running is a real pleasure for him (not to mention no umbilical cord).

Anyone else have an issue with the multple-nail shots (like the Hitachi I used)? I was looking at a Craftsman (Sears, OSH), and it has a firing mode that "guarantees" one shot, one nail. Any body tried that?

David
What makes the Senco "better"?

The GlueGuy

 

[gmason]

Passlode is now making full headed nails for their guns. Still have the paper holding them together though. About $26 a box of 2k. I won't do any "framing" with my nailer now. Saves so much time and frustration you can't imagine. Got mine used at a pawn shop for $150. 4000 nails later, still pounding.

gary

 

[cowboydoc]

Gary,
The ones for my passlode have no paper on them. It's a purple colored kind of glue.

 

[DVerbarg]

Glueguy,

There are two basic types of triggers: Restrictive and dual-action. Senco has a third type (others may have this also, but I am not aware of it) the "ThinkTrac". Restrictive allows one shot by engaging the nose and pulling the trigger. Another shot cannot be made until the trigger is released and pulled again. Dual-action triggers allow you to pull the trigger (and hold it) and "bounce" the nose where ever you want to fire a nail. There are inherent safety issues with this, you could bounce a foot (ouch) or at the end of a 40ft line of nailing forget to release the trigger and place the nailer in your lap... Senco has the ThinkTrac which is the dual-action with a timer that disables the trigger if it is held for more than a specified time the trigger is disabled. This protects against the most common type of accident where people forget to release the trigger and then injure themselves or others while "just holding" the gun.

Having said this, most mfgs have occasional lemons, though some seem to have more than others. Used a Passlode and had multiple shots on a restrictive trigger about 1 of 10 times. This experience, coupled with the fact that HomeDepot seems to have many returned Passlode nailers, steered me away from Passlode. If I were off the grid I would still think twice...

What makes Senco "better"? This can be as hot a topic as what makes NH tractors better /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif! I will however attempt to give a reply. Senco was for many years the name in pneumatic nailers, like the Kleenex of the industry. Their traditional nailers are an all metal construction and have good parts availability. The company lost market share as others found room to challenge them on price by utilizing plastics. Plastics can be fine. As a matter of fact, Senco responded to this competitve challenge by introducing a new line of tools, the Accuset line, that uses the plastics like the competitors do. Senco now also uses some plastic/composite materials in a few of the Senco line.

Do not know about others (would assume that competition would be there) but Senco had a few "Full Round Head" nailers. The models have the suffix "FRH". A couple such models are the FramePro 650FRH and the FramePro750XL FRH. Senco's website is pretty informative.

http://www.senco.com

Hope this helps.


DaveV

 

[mdbarb]

Having shopped for a nail gun about six months ago:
Senco was overwhelmingly the favorite of contractors, its a quality during heavy use issue - that the gun I bought.
My neighbor has a craftsman which I used. I actually like the feel of it better, the grip size and total weight (important for an occasional user like me) but I feel in the long run the quality gun is th ebetter choice. Also I believe all guns have a trigger available (for free) that restricts the guns to one nail per shot) I did get a craftsman nailer for the small staples and used it to put up 300' of wire fencing, work great. Can't imagine having to do that by hand.

 

[mdbarb]

Also re the Passlode guns: word I heard is they are a bit sensitive so one has to be dilgent mantaining them. not just a gun to be knocked around the job site by several differnt workers. and there are of course many other uses for the compressor which means you get to get MORE TOOLS!

 

[cowboydoc]

Not sure about them being sensitive Mdbarb. I've had mine for over three years now. I've dropped mine, built a house, built a barn, done numerous projects and not one bit of trouble. All you have to do is add the oil to it. I couldn't be happier with mine. You do have to make sure the gas, battery, and everything is right or they won't work. The manager at Menard's told me that most of the ones that come back are from user error and that there is nothing wrong with the gun. My brother has used them for years and he has had no problem with their's either.

 

[toddler]

gonna try something.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/135235/103-1758291-7530225

and see if it works.
todd

 

[toddler]

extremely cool,
that worked.
see what you guys think.
I was leaning towards PC, but now I'll have to check out the paslode pneumatic.
Todd

 

[mdbarb]

yes thats sorta what i meant. If its a personal gun and you pay attention to maintenance not having a line is a food thing, but in talking to two different people at the repair depts. they see the gun come in and yes its frequently human error but they convinced me it wasn't the gun to use when I have a couple guys building fences, banging around in their truck etc. I guess things like this always boil down to that ford vs chevy kind of discussion. W'll find fanatics/critics for all brands

 

[jinman]

I just bought a pneumatic PC FR350 from Sam's Club for $239 or $249. They also had the FC350 for the same price. The "R" is for round head and the "C" is for clip head in the Porter Cable model number. I haven't used mine yet, so I can't say how good it is. I have a PC finish nailer that I like just fine. The problem with the non-pneumatic Passlode for me was I can just see needing it and not having a powerpack available for 30 miles around. Of course, I've been known to run out of nails too./w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

JimI

 

[MarkV]

GlueGuy,
Guess I will jump in on this one. I have a Bostitch and Senco frame nailer. I like the Senco best although I have had the Bostitch for 15 years and it still does the job. I have Bostitch, Hitachi and Passlode trim guns. Just plain wore the Bostitch out after 9 or 10 years. I like the angled nails for getting into tight areas. The Hitachi I selved after a year, alway had a problem, jammed alot and was hard to clear. I am using a Passlode now and after 2 years like it best. Nice balance, has very few jams and is easy to clear when it does. Other pneumatic tools inclued, two brad nailers, narrow and wide crow stapler, hardwood flooring stapler and a palm nailer.

I would guess you can tell I use pneumatic nailers daily. Others have given great advice and as someone said, just like tractors, everyone has a brand they like better than others. My advice would be to look for the one that feels best to you. See if the balance seems right, hold it over your head, try it with both hands, is it easy to load, is it to heavy for you. Also, make sure that there is a ready supply of nails, for your brand, in the area.

One last thing. <font color=blue>THESE THINGS CAN HURT YOU!!!</font color=blue> In the last twenty years, I have shot myself several times and seen some others get hurt way more than you want to. Like your tractor, with proper use, pneumatic nailer can be safe and a great time saver.

MarkV

 

[heehaw]

The first nail guns in this area were duofast; and they seem to still have a large part of the market. I just bought a used duofast framing nailer this week, it seems to work fine, i've had a duofast air stapler for years and its never failed to work.
it seems like wayyyyy back in the 60s an 70s they boasted a lifetime warranty or something like that.
heehaw

 

[GlueGuy]

Mark,

Yes, I'm aware of the safety issues. The magazine Fine Homebuilding has a couple of articles on nail guns and nail gun safety. Here is an example of a don't do this "suicide shot" :

Here's the full article on nail gun safety.

Oh, and mdbarb, found out the early Passlode's had a problem with the trigger contacts getting dirty. They've made improvements. Here's an article on the newest Passlode.


The GlueGuy