National I.D. Card

[dmccarty]

In the two states I'm most familiar with the laws, you don't HAVE to possess a state ID card. An officer CANNOT make an arrest if a person is asked for id and refuses to comply. There is no way the Supreme Court would allow this to happen.

HOWEVER, and this gets to the statue that Bird posted, if a person is ARRESTED and refuses to provide proper id they can be held until they do provide proper identification. That is a very big difference. I know this is true in NC and I'm pretty sure it was true in FL. I can't believe a person could be arrested in the US because they did not have ID.

You would commenly see laws like Bird has posted used in misdemenor offenses. An officer can make an arrest or write the person up and tell them to show up at court at a given time. If the officer believes the person might not show up, i.e., out of state/country resident or NO proper ID the officer can take the person to see the magistrate. Make the arrest in other words. Then if the person shows proves who they are supposed to be they might be released. But often the person who in this situation may be wanted on another charge and there is a warrent for their arrest. Hince they are saying that they are Tom A. Jones but in reality are Tom B. Jones who has a warrent for his arrest. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

But to walk up to a person on the street, demand to see ID, and if this is not produced, make an arrest. Nope, don't think so.

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[PitbullMidwest]

Totally opposed. I'm already forced to carry a drivers license and SS card. Not too fond of some "National Security Officer" asking "Papers please".

 

[PitbullMidwest]

<font color=blue>It would, however, provide a tool to better monitor the movements and activities of potential terrorists and other undesirables. It would also allow the authorities to better monitor my movements and activities, but somehow that just doesn't bother me. </font color=blue>

What if some government bureaucrat with a grudge decided that you were undesirable due to views expressed in letters to the editor, public meetings or on TBN would that bother you?

 

[ERNIEB]

Bird, I never looked it up. I was just going on what I have been told by Police officers. Unless I have the wrong definition of detained, B 2 seems to cover it. In other words, if a policeman walks up to you and says " May I have a word with you" You are detained. The Officer does not have to say "you are detained".
If you do not have a valid ID, He can ask you questions, but if in his mind he does not feel you are telling the truth, he can haul you in.
I guess I worded my statement wrong, I didn't mean to say that every person had to have a state ID card, just that they needed an ID. From what I've heard, drivers license, state ID's(issued by DPS, or who ever), goverment ID's are all acceptable, Job or school ID's may or may not.


Ernie

 

[TerryinMD]

Interesting post.

Whether we like it or not, we do have various forms of ID'ing in this country. SSN's, driver's licences, ID badges for work, etc. I believe that it is nearly impossible for any of us to live without having these pieces of information available. Try to get a job, a loan, go to the hospital, whatever you can think of, without having some kind of identification. Just impossible. There are privacy laws in place to protect this information (of course there are abuses just like anything else..).

The key issues are how do you implement such a plan, how do you enforce it, and how not to abuse it. As long as the laws governing the usage of an ID are sound, its advantages could be positive (oh boy, I've opened pandoras box /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif).

Ok, how 'bout this. We do have a system in place. It just needs a little tweeking. It's called the INS. I would think that we need to monitor who comes in and what they doing much more closely. We don't need to close our borders, just monitor all that come through. Sorry, but you do not have any rights as a U.S. Citizen until you become one. Don't think we get any special priviledges when visiting another country??

My 2/100th's...

Terry

 

[Bird]

Ernie, like that B 2 says, "lawfully detained". And officer can ask to have a word with you, as can anyone else you encounter, but as long as you're free to refuse and walk away, you're not "detained." And if you're not free to walk away, the officer better have a valid, legal reason for "detaining" you.

Bird

 

[Harv]

<font color=blue>What if some government bureaucrat with a grudge decided that you were undesirable due to views expressed in letters to the editor, public meetings or on TBN would that bother you?</font color=blue>

Not sure what you're asking, Pitbull, or at least not sure how it relates to the national ID card.

For all I know, I am on a government list somewhere. I was right in the middle of the Berkeley riots in the 60's, and was very likely photographed and placed in an FBI file along with many others. A number of my classmates at the time were incensed to find out about the FBI files, but what can I say? I don't mind the law enforcement bodies doing their job, and if I look suspicious to them, they should keep an eye on me.

I have read the horror stories about people being wrongly suspected and/or accused of evil doings, and had their lives ruined as a result, but I'm hoping those are the unavoidable exceptions and not the rule.

Not to sound any more like a goody two-shoes than I already do, but the reality that I perceive is that we live in a complex society where it's difficult to tell the good guys from the bad. If we believe it is important to sniff out the bad guys before they can perform their dastardly deeds, we have to compromise a little. I don't mind the authorities looking over my shoulder once in a while if it helps to protect our populace as a whole.

Obviously I am only speaking for myself, and I understand that personal privacy is at stake here, which means more to some people than others.

Let me ask an obvious question -- what is a better solution?

 

[TerryinMD]

I was just thinking about somethings while rereading this post.

Personal information - as suggested within this post, someone can easily gather any information about you very easily. All it takes is having some basic information. Go to the county courthouse, if you own a home, bingo information is posted and it is public. Your name, address, phone number, and SSN are the keys to you and your past. I believe that Georgia uses your SSN as your ID number on your drivers license. A lot of companies use your SSN to identifiy you within their systems. Haven't the armed services switched over to using a SSN for your ID number. Goes on and on.

I would image that some of you have pocessed Government security clearances. The higher the clearance, the more information gathered. Now, granted, you give permission for the Government to gather and keep that information. But, once they have it, it's theirs. And to be quite honest, it is very safe. It can be only used for specific purposes. Why can't a National Id and the information behind it be used in a similar fashion. Sure would be great for tracking down the crazies. I wish I had the answer.

Terry

 

[ejb]

>>I don't mind the authorities looking over my shoulder once in a while if it helps to protect our populace as a whole.

I disagree, I am a law abiding citizen and I don't want anyone looking over my shoulder for any reason...where do you draw the line? How about we send federal troopers to do random searches of private residences just in case the occupants are doing something illegal? Afterall, if you have nothing to hide, whats the problem...far fetched? not really. What if it could be proven that these random searches of residences could reduce the murder rate by 5%? then would it would be worth it? how about 10%? 25%?... little by little personal rights are being sacrificed for the perception of safety...mind you, not real safety, just the perception of safety...

 

[ejb]

>>Sure would be great for tracking down the crazies

How would a national id card track down crazies? I don't see it...a crazy terrorist walks across the border from Mexico or Canada (or is smuggled in by boat)...when and where is he going to be asked for an ID card that would allow him to be "tracked down"...are we going to have nazi-like troopers on every corner asking "papers please" to everyone walks by?

Seriously, how would the national ID card help? Sure, if the terrorist would somehow be kept off of a plane, that would be good, but if they couldn't get on a plane they would load up a ryder truck with diesel and fertilizer bomb and drive it into a nuke plant...how would a national ID card have stopped Tim McVeigh? How would an ID card have stopped the next Tim McVeigh? It is a very simplistic idea that once again surrenders more of ones personal provacy and accomplishes *nothing*.

I am all for solution that actually work, but am not willing to support a program that feels good, but accomplishes nothing.