Natural Gas/Propane Inserts for Existing Fireplace

[DarkBlack]

Natural gas appliances have to go. They pollute too much.

‘Romance without the smoke:’ Clean air agencies didn’t get Seattle’s memo that natural gas is the new coal | The Seattle Times

Yup.

 

[Chris616]

Chris,
Thank you for sharing your experience, particularly about the thermostat and remote control. I had to go back and look it up, and "ventless" is the kind that does indeed exhaust the products of combustion into the room. This makes them more efficient as none of the heat goes up the chimney and also lets you mount them on any wall, but for me the benefits are outweighed by the downsides of having the exhaust in the room.

Thanks for that info, Ed. I hate making mistakes in things that I write. I wasn't aware of "ventless" fireplace inserts. They are illegal in my country. Considering the not infrequent stories that we hear about carbon monoxide poisoning from blocked flue pipes on furnaces and hot water heaters I'm surprised that these ventless units would be allowed anywhere.

Chris

 

[AllByteNoBark]

We have used this companies products and while not cheap they have been really great U.S. made products. If o e of there Texas dealers is close go talk to them.

Find a Mendota Hearth Dealer

 

[Chris616]

Natural gas appliances have to go. They pollute too much.

然omance without the smoke: Clean air agencies didn稚 get Seattle痴 memo that natural gas is the new coal | The Seattle Times

Yup.

Considering the marathon "Ice Melt" TBN thread on global warming that I've been involved in I can't argue with you on this one, DarkBlack. But Ed is considering replacing an inefficient gas fireplace with a more efficient one, so it's a step in the right direction.

Chris

 

[Jack Murdock]

Thanks for that info, Ed. I hate making mistakes in things that I write. I wasn't aware of "ventless" fireplace inserts. They are illegal in my country. Considering the not infrequent stories that we hear about carbon monoxide poisoning from blocked flue pipes on furnaces and hot water heaters I'm surprised that these ventless units would be allowed anywhere.

Chris

Just for informational purposes gas fired vent free products equipped with an ODS system ( oxygen depletion system ) are safer than any chimney or "natural vent" appliance marketed here in the states. They have never killed anyone according to CPSC. The biggest issue with vent free is the moisture for every them of natural gas ( 100,000 btu) or gallon of propane ( 92,516 btu ) hence them being illegal and / or restricted in some states moisture is the biggest concern along with general indoor air quality / allergens etc. 40 plus years of gas experience and direct vent is always the best but vent free has a role in heating some spaces.

 

[Jack Murdock]

Just for informational purposes gas fired vent free products equipped with an ODS system ( oxygen depletion system ) are safer than any chimney or "natural vent" appliance marketed here in the states. They have never killed anyone according to CPSC. The biggest issue with vent free is the moisture for every them of natural gas ( 100,000 btu) or gallon of propane ( 92,516 btu ) hence them being illegal and / or restricted in some states moisture is the biggest concern along with general indoor air quality / allergens etc. 40 plus years of gas experience and direct vent is always the best but vent free has a role in heating some spaces.

I should have added that a vent free appliance adds 1 gallon of water vapor per gallon of LP or therm of natural gas.

 

[nikdfish]

We recently replaced an old unvented L.P. gas fireplace with a direct vent (coaxial) unit by Heat & Glo, running the vent through the adjacent brick wall. The firebox is completely sealed, so nothing can get into the house. Combustion air comes in through the same wall opening used for exhaust. It can be configured to either have the vent connection on the back of the firebox or the top. Ours was top vented. The size was dictated by the available space where the old unit was installed & minimum clearance requirements. We used one of the "Slimline" models (Slimline 5X, if memory serves).

The unit is controlled by a wireless remote that also acts as a thermostat. A AA battery pack can be plugged in on the receiver/controller for operations during a power outage. (Not a big deal for us, we have a whole house standby generator). No pilot unless you want it on to reduce condensation on the glass screen, it normally uses an on demand igniter. There is a multi-speed blower & various other features. I believe max heat output on our model is 27,500 Btu. We are quite happy with the upgrade (we never wanted to use the old unvented unit).

This is right after the last of the trim was installed, but the shelving had not ret been replaced.

The intake/exhaust is by the deck, so it has a protective cover to avoid the risk of someone getting burned.

 

[Ken45101]

20 years ago I built new house. It was a large two story, fairly well built. The first winter, we used the "high efficiency" (90% IIRC) central propane furnace. It cost over $3000 to heat that house.


The second winter, we used an unvented stand alone propane fireplace. It cost $600 to heat for the winter, although the winter was a bit milder than the previous winter.

The house also had a vented, glass front propane fireplace. That gave off very little heat.

For efficiency, I really like the unvented propane heaters. They are 99+% efficient.

Likewise, in my dad's house, he put in an unvented propane fireplace. His high efficiency (96%) central furnace had problems and he didn't bother to get it repaired, he was happy with the unvented gas fireplace. After dad died, my son lived there and again, stuck with the gas fireplace for all their heating.

YMMV

Ken

eta: My current house, has fair to poor insulation. We use a combination of wood stove, pellet stove, unvented propane heater, and, in mild weather, the heat pump. The wood stove heats the best but is the most work. As we get older, turning the dial on the propane heater gets more and more attractive although nothing heats as well as the wood stove.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

When my dad got too old to split firewood, he installed a vented insert. It had an efficient heat exchanger as long as the fan was running, and blew lots of warm air into the room. It also ran on a thermostat, so would turn itself off, and if you wanted you could moderate the fire by a valve that could turn the flame down so the logs just glowed with no visible flame. The remote and thermostat ran on a 9 volt alkaline battery, but the fan needed a 120v. plug.

During power outages, the heat output was much reduced, but you could pull chairs up around the fireplace and the heat radiated from the glass front would take the chill off the room. That's what the old wingback chairs were for. They captured radiant heat to keep the occupant warm. A tiny camp generator would keep the fan running and the room warm, but we put the furnace on a generator and the whole house was comfortable.

There was an OK masonry chimney, but IIRC the installer ran a stainless vent sleeve up the flue, and all the connections from the stove to the chimney cap were tightly sealed.

That said, have you thought about installing a ceiling fan to circulate warm air back down to floor level?

 

[Rancher Ed]

Even in the winter it is relatively humid here and bathroom fans are important for avoiding mold problems, so that is another strike against a ventless model. I could see this conversely being a benefit if you were in the TX panhandle, Arizona, or another location with dry winters.

At this point I want a direct vent model. We are more likely to lose power to a hurricane/tornado in the summer/fall than during the winter, so it seems running 120v power to the insert will be worth having a fan, thermostat option, etc. I also know to look for a top vent model and investigate what is involved in running a vent/exhaust sleeve up my existing brick chimney.

Larry, Ken, and nikdfish,
Thank you for sharing your experiences and a couple photos. The room already has a ceiling fan which helps significantly in the summer, but reversing it does little to help the room feel warmer in the winter.

I'm currently working on one of the bathrooms so my research and progress for the fireplace insert will be slow, but I will provide updates as I move forward and welcome any additional feedback or recommendations.