Natural gas?

[phantom309]

Currently our propane is around $3.88 per gallon.

We knew that whatever new place we bought either we'd own the tank ourselves (if it had propane) or forget it.

That is high. It seems that NG/LPG prices vary a lot from one place to the next.

I had our propane topped off in July, and it was $2 per gallon.

My parents house is heated by NG. We live in a neighboring state and our house (larger, with 3X the gas appliances) has LPG, and they spend more on NG than we do LPG every year.

Part of my cost savings is I buy propane once per year during the summer when price is lower instead of buying during peak demand.

 

[Sigarms]

Part of my cost savings is I buy propane once per year during the summer when price is lower instead of buying during peak demand.

Part of the game it seems the LP company plays.

We could buy into a locked rate when we first moved here 20 years ago, but slowly over the years, the "savings plan" offered by the LP company changed.

When we first moved here, 3 gas AC systems on LP and a 500 gallon tank wouldn't last very long. After I duel fueled the attic system (3rd floor bedrooms and bathrooms) and started to save on the usage, it seemed the plans started to change.

Honestly, hate our current LP company for various reasons, not including the couple of times we ran out of gas because they didn't get here when they were supposed to get here.

 

[dodge man]

I didn’t read all the reply’s but I did some research when we put in geothermal 10 years ago. Going by memory geothermal, natural gas and burning wood were the best for monthly cost. That all assumed you were paying for wood, of course it’s a lot of work. Geo costs a lot to put in but there are some tax breaks. It seemed to me at the time natural gas is the best. It’s not available where I live outside of town.

 

[Sigarms]

Geo costs a lot to put in but there are some tax breaks.

Geo was a huge market with the tax breaks in my area. The issue is businesses living off those tax breaks when the consumer bought them due to those tax breaks/

Some years ago in NC, those tax breaks went way for Geo (generally install costs for the trenches), and the Geo business died.

Geothermal is the way to go if you can afford it, but in what I know locally, the guys who REALLY knew what they are doing with Geo are kind of dying off now.

Depending on the state, a HVAC company could not live on Geothermal alone.

FYI, ANY tax break going into 2026 for any HVAC system is gone per tax credit due to the "Big beautiful bill" or whatever they are calling it.

 

[phantom309]

Part of the game it seems the LP company plays.

We could buy into a locked rate when we first moved here 20 years ago, but slowly over the years, the "savings plan" offered by the LP company changed.

When we first moved here, 3 gas AC systems on LP and a 500 gallon tank wouldn't last very long. After I duel fueled the attic system (3rd floor bedrooms and bathrooms) and started to save on the usage, it seemed the plans started to change.

Honestly, hate our current LP company for various reasons, not including the couple of times we ran out of gas because they didn't get here when they were supposed to get here.

That stinks.

I'm sure it helps that there are several propane dealers in our area, so the competition helps.

I hope you can swap in your own tank one of these days. I go through a couple 30 gallon portable propane tanks per year and wanted to be able to fill my own. My 500gal tank didn't have a "dip tube" (and one couldn't be added), so I bought a second tank (teed in with first one so we can use either). Now I can fill my own "BBQ" tanks and we never use more that 1/4 of our on-hand LPG between annual top off, so that's peace of mind.

 

[dodge man]

When we put our Geo in it was about $20k total, as I recall we got a tax break of about $7k. The company that did ours is a local hvac company that has been around a long time. For us it made sense, the payback was less than 5 years. We had propane and several years ago it shot up to over $5 a gallon.

 

[Sigarms]

I'm sure it helps that there are several propane dealers in our area, so the competition helps.

As I previously mentioned, what sucks is if you don't actually own the propane tank when you buy the house.

No other LP company would touch us because we have another LP's company tank.

ONLY the current LP company can remove the existing tank. Yes, you can remove it yourself, but then the price of the tank just went up substantially.

Our worst mistaking buying our old home was not understanding the "rules" of not owning your own LP tank.

 

[CH4Ohio]

As I previously mentioned, what sucks is if you don't actually own the propane tank when you buy the house.

No other LP company would touch us because we have another LP's company tank.

ONLY the current LP company can remove the existing tank. Yes, you can remove it yourself, but then the price of the tank just went up substantially.

Our worst mistaking buying our old home was not understanding the "rules" of not owning your own LP tank.

Few people own their own propane tank. For most people it really doesn't make much sense to buy their own tank.

It shouldn't be a surprise that one company won't fill another company's tank.

I don't really understand the angst around the tank . . . Just call them and ask them to take their tank out if it's a problem.

To your original post -- yes, obviously, install the NG. You don't want to use a heat pump with NG as a backup. More efficient to install the standard high efficiency NG furnace and a central AC system. Add water heating (tankless or not) to the NG load if you can.

 

[Sigarms]

I don't really understand the angst around the tank . . . Just call them and ask them to take their tank out if it's a problem.

As I previously mentioned, the tank is "hidden" by bush and trees intentionally planted around the tank by the previous owner.

Major PITA to remove, and the cost to remove the tank was stupid by the LP company because I can only guess that they don't want to lose you as a customer.

Could outright buy a 500 gallon for less than 1/2 of what it costs to remove it.

The angst around the LP company who owns the tank is that the LP company has you by the gonads... If you call someone else to remove it, generally they won't touch it because you don't own it and if the LP company finds the tank removed, they can charge you anything they want for you to return it or charge you anything they want for it if it's "missing".

 

[Sigarms]

You don't want to use a heat pump with NG as a backup. More efficient to install the standard high efficiency NG furnace and a central AC system. Add water heating (tankless or not) to the NG load if you can.

The only way to determine the actual efficiency is by comparing the electric rate to NG pricing.

Generally, the price difference using NG to Electric is not worth it due to the price difference of using a heat pump vs a AC unit when using a natural gas furnace (I understand that).

On my end, the price difference is negligible between HP and AC, so thus the reason why I'd go with heat pump even when using natural gas. The added benefit is anything happens to the gas supply, I still have heating with the primary HVAC using the furnace as a blower only.

Now, if you were using LP, at least in my area, it's a no brainer to go dual fuel (gas furnace with heat pump) even if there were a 1.5 K price difference between the outdoor unit and coil between HP and AC.

End of the day, I can always control when the gas furnace is operating for heating due to outdoor temperature. If you're straight AC, you HAVE to use the furnace for heat anything the temp gets below your designated set point for heating.

Even though I live in NC, my heating hours substantially are greater than my cooling hours annually. I like the option of using the heat pump over AC due to my previous comments.