Natural gas?

[Torvy]

One advantage to a gas or LP cook top is being able to use the flame.

I find it works well with charring peppers. You cannot do that with induction.

Plus with induction, you need compatible pots that work with them.

As for LP tanks, owning allows you to negotiate for price. Very handy when economy is down.

We don't use much LP, yet. Only the cook top uses it. Fireplaces are natural wood. The furnace is electric on the advice of the builder. Supposedly with the humidity here and the type of insulation, it causes fewer problems. We originally had planned on LP WH, but the units were so much more we went with electric. We do have the line run, so we can switch later if we want.

Our 1st place in Vegas had 2 AC units. A regular electric condenser type and an evaporative cooler. We could get a discount with Nevada Power to put a switch on the AC for peak issues. The few times that happened, we just ran the EC. It was only 1100 sq ft, so it didn't have to work too hard. Humidity was never an issue there.

 

[ultrarunner]

9/10 that's not really the cost of NG, it's the cost of being where you are.

If it’s a line item on my monthly utility bill it’s a cost…

 

[ericm979]

Maybe it’s different in your location, but anything electric, especially heating is substantially more expensive to operate than a NG appliance. NG heating is very cheap, electric heat pumps are not cheap to operate.

Heat pumps have gotten pretty good. Using the price values for our place in Oregon (if we could get gas), 1 million BTUs cost about $19 via a gas central furnace vs $15 for a mini split. Probably for our place in California the mini split costs more but power is extremely expensive there. In Oregon its about the national average.

There's a heating price spread sheet that Maine puts out that you can use to calculate the numbers. It's a few years old so the efficiency of some heaters like mini splits needs to be adjusted to current levels. I used the numbers from the mini splits I'll be using.

An advantage of an all electric home is that you can use solar to get power for all the appliances. Of course if you have power outages you will need more generator or battery or both to power the appliances.

 

[Eagle1]

This thread makes me feel like I'm in a bizarro world where nothing makes sense. (I'm sure that this is just due to it being contrary to my own experience)



Why is that? I have no idea what it costs to rent a tank, but IMO, renting *anything* should be limited to things you only need for the short term. I do not know anybody that rents their propane tank.

My second tank (a 30 year old "refurb" that looks like new) that I bought seven years ago cost a few hundred dollars. What does it cost to rent?



Why would a company that is in the business of selling propane not want to sell propane to anybody/everybody?

I would understand if they offer a discount rate for those that rent from them as a way to incentivize the long-term cash cow of tank rental, but no sale at all?

Is the no-sale thing a "gentleman's agreement" between the local propane dealers to limit competition? Do renters sign contracts to only buy from the one dealer?

Rent here is free as long as you buy X amount of product.

 

[arto98607]

Heat pumps have gotten pretty good. Using the price values for our place in Oregon (if we could get gas), 1 million BTUs cost about $19 via a gas central furnace vs $15 for a mini split. Probably for our place in California the mini split costs more but power is extremely expensive there. In Oregon its about the national average.

There's a heating price spread sheet that Maine puts out that you can use to calculate the numbers. It's a few years old so the efficiency of some heaters like mini splits needs to be adjusted to current levels. I used the numbers from the mini splits I'll be using.

An advantage of an all electric home is that you can use solar to get power for all the appliances. Of course if you have power outages you will need more generator or battery or both to power the appliances.

This looks like the State of Maine calculator you mentioned?

Compare Home Heating Costs

 

[Torvy]

If it’s a line item on my monthly utility bill it’s a cost…

I prefer to compare apples to apples. The taxes and fees and regulatory costs from the government should be required to be spelled out.

 

[ultrarunner]

I prefer to compare apples to apples. The taxes and fees and regulatory costs from the government should be required to be spelled out.

I would also prefer not to pay them but I don’t have a viable way to purchase natural gas for my home other than through the utility.

My use is somewhat nominal averaging about 25 Therms per month.

 

[jyoutz]

Heat pumps have gotten pretty good. Using the price values for our place in Oregon (if we could get gas), 1 million BTUs cost about $19 via a gas central furnace vs $15 for a mini split. Probably for our place in California the mini split costs more but power is extremely expensive there. In Oregon its about the national average.

There's a heating price spread sheet that Maine puts out that you can use to calculate the numbers. It's a few years old so the efficiency of some heaters like mini splits needs to be adjusted to current levels. I used the numbers from the mini splits I'll be using.

An advantage of an all electric home is that you can use solar to get power for all the appliances. Of course if you have power outages you will need more generator or battery or both to power the appliances.

I know that I certainly could not heat my home and water, and cook for only $45/month with anything electric.

 

[Dftodd]

End of the day, down the road, would prefer a tankless gas water heater. We have a pump at the furthest run to the master bath in our current home and we've both been very happy with it (and given that it's just myself and wife now, no doubt we shouldn't exceed the flow rate if sized properly and undersize it if we can get away with it).

The issue is for the free gas hook up, I've got to install a gas furnace. Since the future house is slightly less than 1,700 sq feet, would go with a 2 stage 96% and two stage heat pump (used primarily for heating). Luckily with the unfinished basement, I have plenty of room for a up flow system where as in most homes in NC, you're really stuck for space dealing with a crawl space or small attic (have an attic in our current home and it's not even fun to change the air filter).

Gas furnace may not even come on using that heat pump. If I didn't work in the HVAC industry, probably would use a single stage gas furnace. It's not going to cost me a whole bunch more to go with a dual fuel system vs straight heat pump (electric).

Originally my wife mentioned she would love a gas stove vs the old electric counter top she's been using for the last 20 years in the current home. Going to mention about an induction stove as well and she can pick whatever she wants. End of the day though, although the current electric water heater may not come out right away, but when it does come out, we can use gas.

The future home has a fireplace, but that room is laid out separate from the kitchen bedrooms and bathrooms in the home and we're still trying to figure out what to do with the fireplace. Doesn't make much sense to add money for a added fuel source to utilize the fireplace for really only one room.

Probably go with electric on the dryer. Only thing we have to change there is a hall to the room with the fireplace is basically going to be used. That hall is going to disappear and there will only be one way into the room with the fireplace. Both bathrooms are going to be enlarged using that hall space (believe me, master bath is SMALL where the secondary bath is at least twice the space) and we will be using a under and over washer and dryer to use in a portion of the hallway that is going to disappear. Current washer and dryer in the basement in the future home and that is one thing we don't want. Whole idea is to make our lives easier as we get older, and the basement washer and dryer is what finally made my dad come to live with us when he couldn't do his clothes anymore when he fractured his back.

We are planning on 36" doorways and a roll in shower in the master bath. This way it won't cost much to handicap the bathroom and shower if needed later on.

 

[Dftodd]

When I called, in our area it's currently $1.09 per therm.

Currently our propane is around $3.88 per gallon.

Going from 3,200 sq ft using propane to less than 1,700 sq ft having the chance to use natural gas seems like a no brainer.

Honestly, our biggest mistake when we bought our current home (larger one) was we had no clue what a hassle and headache it would be because the propane company owns the 500 gallon tank on the property (former home owner put it in some bushes so you can't see it, but it's on a slope and a major PITA to take it out, because I've tried).

We knew that whatever new place we bought either we'd own the tank ourselves (if it had propane) or forget it. I started dual fueling the current homes HVAC systems, and everytime I tried to save on LP, it seemed like the LP coming was screwing with me on pricing when our usage went down.

Besides that, just dealing with the current LP company has grown into a PITA on deliveries and basic communication because over the 20 years, it was bought out by larger companies over the years.

We are lucky as far as LP goes. There's a small LP company about 3 miles up the road. They are pretty straight shooters.

They sell you the propane tank. They don't rent or lease them. And it's the current price of propane when you get your tank filled plus a trip charge based on distance.