Need 220vAC electrical help - change 4 prong outlet to 3-prong

[C4Ranch]

Thanks guys! Gonna do it this way:
14-50P -> 6-50R
Ground to Ground
Hot. to Hot
Neutral ignore. :thumbsup:

 

[Sodo]

I'm still not convinced that my old generator (3-wire) is instant death. Nor my new generator that has a 'switched neutral kit' that allows me to choose the application (3-wire or 4-wire).

But as several of you say, the NEC is there to protect those with thick skulls from themselves. My skull's pretty thick, but it has to be, to weed out the bad info its bombarded with, often from forums. Give me some time. I do appreciate knowing the reasons behind NEC code.

What do you guys think of this "Switched Neutral Kit" which professes that 4-wire is to allow GFCI protection to function correctly? (from post #7) My shop has no GFCIs, I'm powering welder & shop tools.

And, beating a dead horse here, unplugging my 3-holer restores the 4-wire unbounded neutral to original. Same as if I bought this adapter Miller 300517 (as recommended by several folks including Bukitcase.


If the ground path happens to be thru my thick skull there will only be a slight tingling and I may live to post again.

 

[ModMech]

I am NOT an electrician, but my FIL is a recently retired 30+ year Journeyman electrician and lead and he has made it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the neutral and ground MUST NEVER BE CONNECTED except at the panel or inside the "appliance" if designed to be so.

One of the major reasons for this is of course safety, current code REQUIRES a 4 conductor receptacle, this is to ensure that all connected devices will operate as designed (some will not on a 3 conductor). Everyone encountering a 4 prong receptacle will expect it to be wired correctly and safely, so wiring it differently than NEMA standards, opens the possibility for serious problems.

If the appliance has a 3-pole cord, you NEED a correct 3-pole plug and receptacle, if it requires only a 2-pole connection and all you have is a 3-pole, do not make the connection to the "extra" terminal as others have also suggested. In this way, nothing bad will happen.

From my limited experience with wiring, it seems you have made a 2-pole connection with a 3-pole plug, no one but you will expect that.

Reference: How to wire 240 volt outlets and plugs

 

[robstaples]

What is your old generator? Do you just mean the 3 conductor extension cord? All this discussion of ground and neutral means almost nothing with an ungrounded generator. It's an isolated system. Meaning ground is not connected to the generator in any way. But tools have grounded cases(3 wire 120 plug) and welder frames connected to the green wire. So it can impact the safety as to how or what one connects to the green wire.
There are standards and good practices that have been established under the NEC, that if followed, makes for as safe as one can expect wrt electricity.
If your answer is about 3 conductor-- 2 hots and combined neutral/ ground wire, it will work fine and if the generator is never grounded, it is also fine.

Grounded systems use a isolated ground ( green wire) from the load carrying wire-the neutral or white wire.

 

[Sodo]

Old generator is a 120/240v 5kW Coleman from about 1985. It has a 3-wire outlet. No evidence suggests it killed anyone including me but maybe we were all lucky. New generator (2014) has 4 wire outlet.

Problem with this thread is, I proposed a modification, was advised wrong (use 2 hots & ground, isolate neutral). 240v seemed fine but 120v didn't work, so I suspected something was wrong. I read more into post #7 (DaveM7040) and changed accordingly to a selectable Neutral-bond. Now the 120v outlets (and the 240v) work on my extension cord. And the generator is restored to original by unplugging the bonded-ground plug.

It's currently wired per post #22 and I think its all good. If anyone is to offer further advice please refer ONLY to post #22 otherwise we're going in circles & putting bad info on the TbN forum.

I think the only remaining question is whether a 120v tool, with a grounded metal case is used on the one leg (a 120v outlet on 120/240v ext cord) poses significantly more danger than it did for 30 years on the 1985 Coleman.

 

[robstaples]

No higher risk today than years ago. I understand. Be safe, I need your wisdom on B series. Rob

 

[Sodo]

Wisdom,,,,good luck with that- once Terry's tapped out (post 33) you can bet I'm runnin on fumes.

 

[Big Barn]

...we're doomed.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Here's all you need....Welder approved. lol Adapter Cord - 14-50P to 6-50R 230V 8/3 Cable 1.5' Long (For Champion ELITE & Champion 10,000 Welder/Generator) - Hobart Welding Products

 

[Gary Fowler]

All this advice flies out the window when wiring up a 50 amp 4 prong service for a camper. Many an electrician has fried camper internals when wiring them up as a 240V system. The are supplied with two 50 amp 110V circuits when properly wired but they look like 220 volt 4 prong plugs.

If you plan to run your camper off a generator with 220v power DONT DO IT. There are lots of YouTube videos on how to correctly wire up a RV plug.