Need a Survey

Soundguy · Apr 20, 2004

I imagine the big differenes in prices you are seeing were actual work prices. Lots of times they may just be kicking the corners.. money comes in when they have to reset tack points.. or rod and cap.. monuments.. etc.

Look at your existing survey and see what is set at the corners.. rod and cap.. monument.. etc.. then go look for them... might get lucky.

Soundguy

EddieWalker · Apr 21, 2004

TC18guy,

Funny you mention original surveys and the dificulty in finding the markers.

I live in Smith County, East Texas. The county has no record of the boundries for the county. A specialist, or at least he's very good at finding these things, tried to find an original survey for find the official boundries for the county.

No luck.

It seems they were marked on trees, which are long gone.

I guess this is normal, but it does make me wonder about all those other boundries across the country and how well they are recorded.

TC18guy · Apr 21, 2004

Records do very across the country. State laws mandate which and when surveys need to be recorded. The East side of the country was settled first, i.e. the original surveys are much older. As settlement moved west, the surveys were more recent and the monumentation got a little better. In more polulated areas there are more surveys and more recorded records to perpetuate an original corner. In extremely rural areas there may have not been any perpetuation since the corner was originally placed, sometimes the only evidence you have is patterns of fence lines, tree rows, etc. Here in Michigan I've heard several stories of surveyors finding original US Bearing trees with the original markings intact. Around my area we've found a few of the original wood posts under roads, in swamps, etc.

BRIGUY · Apr 22, 2004

Thanx everyone for all the helpful information. I've done quite a bit of clearing of brush and debris near the property lines, much to the dismay of a few of the owners of adjacent properties. Seems that a few of them have been dumping stuff on my land for some time. I removed 40+ trailer loads of burnable stuff (20 cu ft garden trailer piled as high as I could pile it) from one of my fence lines. Fences, swing sets stairs. brush piles, 100= linear ft of rotten stockade fence etc etc!!!! Burned for two days straight!!!
I consulted with several surveyors and wasn't tickeled with any of them for various reasons. Researched deeds and tax maps. Then I was able to consult with and retain the surveyor who subdivided the property in 1986 and again in 1989. He has all the documentation Topo, Surveys and surveyors notes on the property back to 1916. When my 1.5 acres was actually 5 lots and 2 or 3 roads. my lot also borders 8 peices of land I have 2 rights of way through adjacent properties (only one on the Deed) and has 8 corners 3 of which had pins. I was offered several options staking some corners, all corners, and full update of the survey. I have decide not to cheap out and have it done right. The funny thing is that it still isn't going to cost as much as some of the other surveyers wanted to stake 4 corners.

Best of all I found out that the surveyor just purchased a new Kubota. He's the right guy for the job.

Junkman · Apr 22, 2004

While he is there, have him clearly mark out and pin the right of ways, so you will always know where they are. I owned a piece of land that I was going to build on, but a survey showed a "cart road right of way" going through the area that I wanted to build the house on. I decided not to build because of this and sold the land. The new buyer decided that he would gamble and put his house in the middle of the right of way and worry about it later if there ever was a problem. I didn't have the stomach for that type of gamble.

Currmudgeon · Apr 23, 2004

( I was able to consult with and retain the surveyor who subdivided the property in 1986 and again in 1989. He has all the documentation Topo, Surveys and surveyors notes on the property back to 1916. )

That can be precious. There's a surveyor I like to work with in one of the outlying counties. When the County has a land question, they call him because his land records are better than theirs. You just can't be in a hurry, because he is busier'n hell and will do your work when it comes up on his list.

keeney · Apr 23, 2004

In my town, there is one survey company in that has done most of the work around the area. Problem is, they made about a 2' mistake about 25 years ago when sub-dividing the lots. 2' doesn't seem like a lot, but when you are paying by the foot for lakeshore, it can get people at each other's throats in a hurry.

They had a survey for my lot, but when I wanted to build, they wanted too much money for a simple "update". Plus, the old servey was hand-drawn and would not be available in electronic form. Plus I didn't think I should have to pay for them to correct their own mistakes!

I found a different, newer firm with a bunch of young guys who use modern equipment like computers, lasers, and GPS. They were $600 cheaper and gave me copies of the files which have come in handy on numerous occasions for producing plans, drawings, and sketches of my landscaping, irrigation, etc.

Now, I know exactly where all the boundaries are and maintain the pins as best as I can. Funny thing is about survey pins and neighbors. The pins that show the true property line being not in their favor compared to where they wished it was tend to mysteriously disappear.

- Rick

Lazy · Apr 23, 2004

Hi
I thought it was illegal to tamper with boundary pins.
They could get into a lot of trouble if they are removing or relocating them.

charlie

Poppa · Apr 23, 2004

( Hi
I thought it was illegal to tamper with boundary pins.
They could get into a lot of trouble if they are removing or relocating them.

charlie )

I've often seen them get accidentally pulled/buried/moved/thrown down a slope/locked in a garage/recycled into concrete work, while grading or digging postholes. Tragic but true.

Mike

Junkman · Apr 23, 2004

I have had the same problem and this time the surveyor is going to set a 36" long granite monuments in concrete. He said that the only way that these will come out is if they dig them out. I believe that there fine is a hefty fine, plus jail time in CT for first time tampering with a marker that has been installed by a surveyor.

EddieWalker · Apr 23, 2004

My parents bought a house with 2 1/2 acres in the mountains. No fences of any kind. My mom wanted a garden and the deer were a real problem, so they decided to fence in their land. No survey was done when they bought the place and the previous owner showed my dad the corners before buying.

When he looked for the corners to build the fence, two were missing. He looked and looked and nothing. He hired a surveyor to mark the corners and lay out the boundries for the fence.

Turns out their rear neighbor had built their back porch and detached garage on my parents land.

Of course, they said they didn't know it wasn't their land, and if the corner stakes hadn't disapeared, somebody might believe that story.

To work it out, they changed the boundries to maintain the 2 1/2 acres they paid for.

The title company ended up paying for the survey and all the paper work, but they wouldn't and couldn't do anything about the encroachment.

Junkman · Apr 24, 2004

My parents had the same problem.... a few inches of their home was on the neighbors land, but it was the home builder that built the house that made the mistake. He was developing the entire street and did his own survey work. Rumor has it that he made the mistake and when he realized it, it was too late, so he just ignored it. It wasn't until they were ready to sell the house that it came to light as to how all the homes on the street were effected. That was 25 years later and nothing was done about it. The sale went through and to this day, the house is in violation of the zoning that has since been established. I don't know what they would do if the house ever burned and had to be rebuilt, but every home on that side of the street is built right on the property line on the left side of the house. The error just kept repeating itself when future measurements were taken. Good thing that everyone got along with their neighbors back then, or it might have been a problem. I think that the error happened when they put the street in between two lots and forgot to adjust for the width of the street.

Currmudgeon · Apr 26, 2004

( The pins that show the true property line being not in their favor compared to where they wished it was tend to mysteriously disappear. )

Now that it's too late, the way to protect survey corners is to set witness markers. Two additional stakes, with measurements, will allow you to recover the location of a missing corner.

A surveyor I used to deal with had the following quotation from Leviticus posted in his front office, "Cursed be he who moves a boundary stone."

Currmudgeon · Apr 26, 2004

( I think that the error happened when they put the street in between two lots and forgot to adjust for the width of the street. )

The world of surveying is rife with errors. The real art of the surveyor is in recreating the errors to get the corners to come out where they were originally surveyed. The original locations generally govern.

It's not uncommon, for example, for the length of a block determined by one surveyor to not equal the sum of the lots as determined by another. I seem to recall reading that a major portion of Baltimore had been surveyed with a worn chain (back when a 66 foot Gunter's chain actually had 100 physical links) and thus all the measurements were longer than recorded. It was so prevalent that the City surveyor's office had special chains (by then they were actually steel tapes) made up with the error built in, so they could recreate the errors more easily.

TC18guy · Apr 26, 2004

The pros always try for at least 4 witnesses. It takes a minimum of 2 witnesses to re-establish a point, a third witness is for checking and a fourth in case any of the other 3 come up missing.

It is illegal to tamper with a survey marker, but it is very difficult to prove who did it.

One thing we encourage our clients to do is "very carefully" dig around the marker without disturbing it and mix a little quickcrete around it. For extra $$$ we can place a 4"x36" long concrete monument for property corners instead of the standard 18" rebar.

BRIGUY · Apr 28, 2004

I got a call from my wife at work today (she had gone home for lunch). The surveyor was there. He said it was going to be at least two or three weeks. Great service /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll post soon with the final outcome.

MDNY · Apr 30, 2004

When we built in 2002 we had the survey done for our land 12 1/3 acres before we purchased the land. It cost us about $750 for the survey which was all 4 corners and nothing but woods. Hard part now is I need one side of my property line marked every 100FT so I can put up my posted signs. It seems the new owner next to me decided he would put his posted signs up and I feel as though his signs are on my land, or more clearly my trees. From what I understand a survey price was quoted, considered too high and no one can say if a survey was done. But, getting my surveyor back has been a pain, keeps saying we are on his list, since summer 03 but doesn't come out. Its hard to find a surveyor for such a small job.

Soundguy · May 1, 2004

If you have a copy of your survey.. look to see what the lot corners are marked by.. ( rod and cap.. tab, monument.. etc.. )... and then go find them.... not super hard to do with a few hand tools, and measuring tape or wheel. Use nylon string like fence installers do to check down your line... that or an inexpensive lock level.( maybee even one with a built in laser.. etc ). and shoot corner end marker down to the other end marker... ( if there are no obstructions..
A few minutes spen on your own comensuration could save you some bucks... and answer your questions for you.

Soundguy

MDNY · May 2, 2004

I was considering doing that but my property goes about 1600ft back with about 800ft before the first drop off (slope) and is noting but woods. I feel its more the promise they will put me on the schedule and then never doing it or calling to say, "hey we are just too busy here is another person who can do it" but the attitude seems to be yeah when we get around to it. Going to call them again and say do you know someone who can do it.

BRIGUY · May 2, 2004

I would find another surveyor. Not all are created equal. The only thing i can suggest is to drop them off a retainer $. That's what I did and I know I got bumped up in the que.