Need Advice on Ag-tractor Backhoe-based Stump Removal

[Dougster]

Anybody tells you your tractor is too small to get a job done hasn't thought it through. It may take extra time, but it's doable.

Please don't take my jokes too seriously. I am perfectly fine with my tractor and backhoe. If anything, in the much bigger picture, I probably bought a little too big rather than a bit too small. We got off track here slightly with my statement that I wanted to go see how a "pro" removes stumps with a full-sized backhoe. Frankly, I'd rather watch a good experienced private operator on an aggie tractor backhoe as that would be far more relevant to my situation... but not too many of those folks available to watch and learn from around here. They're all off quietly working their own private property.

The bottom line is that I'm simply looking to improve my technique and efficiency at removing stumps. I'd really like to get to the point where I can examine a stump and tell how long (and how big a mess) it's going to take to pull it out. And it may sound funny, but consistancy and predictability (in terms of time and effort) is even more important to me than the actual time needed. I can plan out up to two full days if that's what I'd need... but I'd like to get to the point where confidently executing the task at hand within a predictable time frame comes naturally.

Dougster

 

[bluetc30]

removing stumps was the first thing i did with my tractor if your not in a big hurry to get the stumps out wait till spring thaw they will come out easier. i just start digging about 2 or 3 feet out so i can get the roots to break and work 3 sides of the stump ad most times i can get the stump out without moving tractor too much then once the stump is out i break all the long roots off and dig a hole in the same place about 6 foot deep and bury the stump whole job might tak up to an hour or so

 

[Dougster]

removing stumps was the first thing i did with my tractor if your not in a big hurry to get the stumps out wait till spring thaw they will come out easier. i just start digging about 2 or 3 feet out so i can get the roots to break and work 3 sides of the stump ad most times i can get the stump out without moving tractor too much then once the stump is out i break all the long roots off and dig a hole in the same place about 6 foot deep and bury the stump whole job might tak up to an hour or so

No waiting until spring thaw around here. The stumps might come out easier, but I'd get the tractor stuck for sure in the saturated, slippery/slimey clay soil. From mid-March until almost July I can't even walk back there (hence my efforts to completely clear, re-grade, dry out and otherwise make my property usable for something other than mere privacy.

And here I thought I had an original thought burying my stumps down deep. You just ruined my whole dang evening!

Dougster

 

[PBinWA]

For the record - the Meri-crusher pulverizes everything in it's path and leaves a nice flat surface. It's like a Harley Rake and Tiller on steroids. It can pulverize asphalt roads.

I had a 50,000 Kobelco Excavator come out and he pulled out and stacked 55 Douglas Firs in about 4 hours (12"-24" trunk width). Cost me about $1100 since they weren't busy at the time. Now something that big can scoop out your stumps faster than anything. They can shake all the dirt off and compact the ground back down too.

Just another thought.

 

[CurlyDave]

I'm wondering if I should buy or rent something like a Bosch Brute jackhammer (or similar) with a wide cutting bit.

I have a Makita electric jackhammer, with about a 4" scaling blade, which is pretty close to what you are talking about. I have used it to help remove small stumps when digging by hand, and it will cut roots up to a few inches in diameter.

OTOH, after I got my backhoe I have never been tempted to get it out & use it on a stump.

One suggestion is to leave about a 40" stump attached to the rootball. This gives a lot of leverage, and makes removal easier.

I had a guy with a trackhoe doing work on our land and he could remove entire trees in 5 minutes that would take me a day to cut down and dig out the stump, sometimes more than a day.

Our ground is very, very rocky, and having oak roots entangled in rocks the size of a basketball, or bigger is very time consuming.

 

[Mith]

i break all the long roots off and dig a hole in the same place about 6 foot deep and bury the stump

When the stump rots will you not have to fill in the area where the ground sinks?



I do what Eddie said, just dig around the stump, when you hit a root you cant break with the hoe did out from the stump until you can break the root. Then you can use the hoe to break that root closer to the base of the stump. You need a dig a real big hole for a real big stump.

I usually start by digging a trench down one side of the stump, about 2-3 foot away from it. Dig it about 6-7' deep, you'll break quite a couple roots this way, again just dig out until you can break off the roots. If you position the bucket so the teeth are under the root, then use the curl to break the root.
Pile the dirt as far away as you can, its annoying having to move dirt away from the hole.
Once youve got the trench try diggin in closer to the stump along the line of the trench.
Do this on all sides of the stump. if you uncurl your bucket all the way you can sometimes scrape under the stump a little. Also if you drive you you are right up close the stump, and dig on the other side of it, so you can dig under the stump (you cant see what you are doing this way, just have to guess whats going on).
Eventually the stump will the standing on an island in the middle of a big hole, and you can use the hoe to break it off and drag it out the hole. The stump might break out at any point before that depending on how easy the stump is, you may get away with digging only 2 or 3 sides.
Just keep at it. I've had some large pines take me a whole day, but I used equipment smaller than yours.



The pic below is of a 18" diameter pine, boy did it have alot of roots, and it was a mighty big hole, about 6-7' deep, and 10' square. 1/2 day job.

 

[Dougster]

For the record - the Meri-crusher pulverizes everything in it's path and leaves a nice flat surface. It's like a Harley Rake and Tiller on steroids. It can pulverize asphalt roads. I had a 50,000 Kobelco Excavator come out and he pulled out and stacked 55 Douglas Firs in about 4 hours (12"-24" trunk width). Cost me about $1100 since they weren't busy at the time. Now something that big can scoop out your stumps faster than anything. They can shake all the dirt off and compact the ground back down too. Just another thought.

Yeah, others have mentioned that we should have contracted out all or at least major portions of our property improvement project. We received estimates in the $11K to $14K range for the rough work alone. We put that money into buying a compact TLB instead. I still think we made the right decision and will end up with a better result with less collateral damage. No regrets whatsoever.

One major factor in our decision was that there is simply no good way for heavy track equipment to get into our back yard except through an unfriendly neighbor's yard. It was a total non-starter. Best we could have gotten back there was a decent sized construction-type backhoe.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I have a Makita electric jackhammer, with about a 4" scaling blade, which is pretty close to what you are talking about. I have used it to help remove small stumps when digging by hand, and it will cut roots up to a few inches in diameter. OTOH, after I got my backhoe I have never been tempted to get it out & use it on a stump. One suggestion is to leave about a 40" stump attached to the rootball. This gives a lot of leverage, and makes removal easier. I had a guy with a trackhoe doing work on our land and he could remove entire trees in 5 minutes that would take me a day to cut down and dig out the stump, sometimes more than a day. Our ground is very, very rocky, and having oak roots entangled in rocks the size of a basketball, or bigger is very time consuming.

Yeah, as mentioned above... no large track equipment was going to get into our backyard without an unfriendly neighbor's major participation and cooperation and/or a *huge* lawsuit. It was not going to happen... a total non-starter.

I still think I'm giving folks the wrong impression here. Just because I want to learn to do it more efficiently, please don't think I am looking to dump my project onto someone else. I am not complaining... just looking to learn better technique from those with far more experience!

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

When the stump rots will you not have to fill in the area where the ground sinks? I do what Eddie said, just dig around the stump, when you hit a root you can't break with the hoe dig out from the stump until you can break the root. Then you can use the hoe to break that root closer to the base of the stump. You need to dig a real big hole for a real big stump. I usually start by digging a trench down one side of the stump, about 2-3 foot away from it. Dig it about 6-7' deep, you'll break quite a couple roots this way, again just dig out until you can break off the roots. If you position the bucket so the teeth are under the root, then use the curl to break the root. Pile the dirt as far away as you can, its annoying having to move dirt away from the hole. Once you've got the trench try diggin in closer to the stump along the line of the trench. Do this on all sides of the stump. if you uncurl your bucket all the way you can sometimes scrape under the stump a little. Also if you drive you you are right up close the stump, and dig on the other side of it, so you can dig under the stump (you cant see what you are doing this way, just have to guess whats going on). Eventually the stump will the standing on an island in the middle of a big hole, and you can use the hoe to break it off and drag it out the hole. The stump might break out at any point before that depending on how easy the stump is, you may get away with digging only 2 or 3 sides. Just keep at it. I've had some large pines take me a whole day, but I used equipment smaller than yours. The pic below is of a 18" diameter pine, boy did it have a lot of roots, and it was a mighty big hole, about 6-7' deep, and 10' square. 1/2 day job.

Thanks for the tips Mith. Very helpful. There are some very common themes in what you, Eddie and others have written here. Believe me when I say that I am paying very close attention and will apply your hints and techniques to my work. I appreciate everyone's input. It's a great group!

I'm sure I will be dead and/or gone from here long before the buried stumps give anyone any trouble. I can't burn... and off-site stump disposal is costly and inconvenient right now. I'm hoping that will change once I purchase my dump trailer and find some cheaper legal disposal options outside of town. Unfortunately, that purchase may be as much as six months away depending on how my brand new "early retirement" goes.

Dougster

 

[willfick]

It reads like you're catching on. I've dug lots of oak, gum and pine stumps much bigger than what you've said you've got with my old TLB. It's not much bigger than what you're using. It really is just a matter of time. If you can't pop a root, go farther out. I've dug more than one that by the time I had it loose I had to chain to the stump and pull it over to the edge of the hole to get it out.
The part about being able to tell ahead of time how big a job one will be; it's guesstiment work. You kinda get to where you can know something by what species, how big, other nearby stumps, soil, etc., but I still always start too close in. Lazy, and it ends up taking longer.
Main thing is, to be safe, dig stumps not trees.
Good Luck, Wm