Need Advice on Ag-tractor Backhoe-based Stump Removal

[Dougster]

I'm looking for experience and advice that could help me to expedite the removal of a gaggle of new and existing oak tree stumps... typical diameter 12" to 18"... some sticking up, some near level with the ground... with my Bradco 509 backhoe. I'm getting the impression that I am not using the best technique or at least taking too long and making too much of a mess digging them out. Folks have posted here about stump removal being the hardest thing you can do with an aggie tractor backhoe and that it is a task better suited to medium to large track excavators. I believe that... but I can't afford a track excavator and one couldn't easily get into my back yard anyway.

Besides ideas on BH stump removal technique, I'm looking for ideas regarding supplementary equipment that could be bought or rented to help the process along. While I have two chain saws... one electric and one gas... I probably could use a larger, longer chain saw as a start. But the chains and bars get ruined so dang fast, it doesn't seem particularly time or cost efficient. More specifically, I'm wondering if I should buy or rent something like a Bosch Brute jackhammer (or similar) with a wide cutting bit. Does that make any sense? Or am I on the wrong track?

Anyway... any and all ideas and recommendations appreciated!

Dougster

 

[Raddad]

Why not just rent a stump grinder. The hole you need to repair is much smaller than digging them out and it's faster, to say nothing about the fun of running a stump grinder.

 

[schmism]

when performing the process on smaller "hand sized" version i figure the same method can be scaled up with a BH.

For my 6" ish stumps i dig around them by hand (with a tile spade/sharpshooter)
large roots i cut with an ax. Then i hook them up to the tractor and yank on them. it will either expose were i need to cut more roots (by hand) or get yanked out.

gennerally the more digging on the front end the less yanking on the back end.

Ive found this to be a good mix of both digging them out and pulling them out (quick).

while neither method will result in a min of distrubed ground, with a little work to smooth things out, the removal evidence will dissapear in a couple of weeks.

if min disturbance is a key, then go with a stump grinder.

 

[Dougster]

Why not just rent a stump grinder. The hole you need to repair is much smaller than digging them out and it's faster, to say nothing about the fun of running a stump grinder.

For 31 years, every stump I have ever had ground down has turned out to be a lasting nuisance and eyesore in my lawn. One of the main reasons I originally bought this particular tractor/loader/backhoe was so that I would never have to grind a stump ever again. My old man always did it right. He paid someone with a backhoe to dig them all out. Instant end of problem! That's why his lawn is level and perfect today... while my yard is a bumpy, uneven mess.

But to further explain my currrent project, the entire back yard needs to be cleared and re-graded. Given the extent of the planned re-grading, I don't think grinding would be practical.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

when performing the process on smaller "hand sized" version i figure the same method can be scaled up with a BH. For my 6" ish stumps i dig around them by hand (with a tile spade/sharpshooter) large roots i cut with an ax. Then i hook them up to the tractor and yank on them. it will either expose were i need to cut more roots (by hand) or get yanked out. gennerally the more digging on the front end the less yanking on the back end. Ive found this to be a good mix of both digging them out and pulling them out (quick). while neither method will result in a min of distrubed ground, with a little work to smooth things out, the removal evidence will dissapear in a couple of weeks. if min disturbance is a key, then go with a stump grinder.

My newbie technique is obviously evolving, but I started with the usual "dig down both sides and then turn 90 degrees" approach... using one or both chain saws (depending on location and wetness) as necessary to cut the larger exposed roots. Then I try to get close enough to get down underneath and pop it with the bucket. I wish my bucket or bucket teeth had a sharp cutting edge for hitting those roots, but they don't. The bottom line is that I find myself doing much more "off-tractor" work and chainsaw maintenance than I expected and... with one useless bad arm... this is slowing me down a lot. Hence my quest for a better technique and/or lower maintenance device than a chainsaw in dirt & mud for dealing with those dang roots.

Dougster

 

[Willl]

One of my first projects w/ my 790/BH was stump removal.
Big douglas firs, with roots the size of small trees.

My tools; BH, chainsaw and the garden hose.
I would dig down below the root on both sides, then using garden hose nozzle, blast under and around the root till clean. Fire up the chain saw and slice and dice.

Even using this method, I still went thru a few blades for every stump. Darn rocks.

 

[EddieWalker]

There's no easy way to do it. You just need to keep digging until enough dirt is removed for the stump to come loose. No need for chainsaws or getting of the tractor, just take out more dirt. I've seen posts with pictures here of others with the same problems, and in every case, they give up digging and go at it manually.

Keep digging with the backhoe. Do both sides like you mentioned, but maybe go deeper. If you can, try to dig under the stump a little as you dig along the sides. Then change positions and dig the other sides. I've found that if it doesn't break free from the position your parked, changing position again works. For whatever reason, there is always one direction that is much weeker than any other. There is also a certain distance from the stump that you get more power from you backhoe than any other distance. You need to know what that distance is so you can get the full force of your hydraulics. Too close or too far wont do anything, but when your in the right spot, you can just pop them loose.

If the side roots are too thick, go out farther and work your way in. A large root will break easy if there's no dirt around it, but if it's still solid in the dirt, it takes a massive amount of power to cut them. Roots are not like branches, they are soft and flexible, you just need to get them loose first.

Did down deep next to the root. Each species is different, but oaks are in the not too bad catagory. Pines with large tap roots are the worse!!! Cedars are about the easiest.

Make a big hole, it's just dirt and it goes right back in easy enough. It's also the area you'll have the best growth when your all done because you've turned the soil so well and new grass or plants will do very well there. Kind of like disking or tilling the soild to the extreme!!!

I've spent a few minutes on a stump all the way up to an hour. I've taken out hundreds of stumps and thousands of trees. It's just a matter of sticking with it.

Good Luck,
Eddie

 

[Dougster]

Even using this method, I still went thru a few blades for every stump. Darn rocks.

I assume you mean chainsaw chains and/or bars. Yes, I seem to dull and ruin them as fast as I can sharpen or buy new ones. And it doesn't matter how big or small the stump is. It's all about the dirt, mud and imbedded rocks.

Is this just a fact of life? Or do you think there may be some sense to using an electric jackhammer? Yes, I know they cost a bundle, but so do good chainsaws.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

There's no easy way to do it. You just need to keep digging until enough dirt is removed for the stump to come loose. No need for chainsaws or getting of the tractor, just take out more dirt. I've seen posts with pictures here of others with the same problems, and in every case, they give up digging and go at it manually.

Keep digging with the backhoe. Do both sides like you mentioned, but maybe go deeper. If you can, try to dig under the stump a little as you dig along the sides. Then change positions and dig the other sides. I've found that if it doesn't break free from the position your parked, changing position again works. For whatever reason, there is always one direction that is much weeker than any other. There is also a certain distance from the stump that you get more power from you backhoe than any other distance. You need to know what that distance is so you can get the full force of your hydraulics. Too close or too far wont do anything, but when your in the right spot, you can just pop them loose.

If the side roots are too thick, go out farther and work your way in. A large root will break easy if there's no dirt around it, but if it's still solid in the dirt, it takes a massive amount of power to cut them. Roots are not like branches, they are soft and flexible, you just need to get them loose first.

Did down deep next to the root. Each species is different, but oaks are in the not too bad catagory. Pines with large tap roots are the worse!!! Cedars are about the easiest.

Make a big hole, it's just dirt and it goes right back in easy enough. It's also the area you'll have the best growth when your all done because you've turned the soil so well and new grass or plants will do very well there. Kind of like disking or tilling the soild to the extreme!!!

I've spent a few minutes on a stump all the way up to an hour. I've taken out hundreds of stumps and thousands of trees. It's just a matter of sticking with it.

Good Luck,
Eddie

Eddie, you are the man! Thank you for that lengthy explanation & very helpful experience. I will take it to heart. Perhaps I haven't been going down far enough... and sounds like I may be spending too much time too soon with the axe and chainsaws as well. Perhaps I am just trying to rush things too much... and trying too hard not to destroy too much adjacent lawn. You have the experience... and I'm just getting to know these ugly things. I'll try a health measure of patience and see how that works.

Dougster

 

[Willl]

There seems to be a lot of differences in area and tree types.

The doug-firs I dug out took many hours, one a few days.

Then again, these were 2'-3' across at the base, w/ roots that reach out 20' or so.

3 down, 2 more to go.

 

[AlanB]

I was thinking along the lines of what Eddie said. My wife say's I am Lazy,,, and I do not particularly disagree

If I have a choice between operating a piece of large hydrualic equipment, or getting down in the dirt with a running chainsaw,,,, No question to me.

The wife is always hard pressed to even get me to get off the tractor to hook a chain around something to help pull it out.

I would just tell you too keep digging.

And there is absolutely no good way to handle a chainsaw in the dirt.

 

[Willl]

Example.
This is the butt trim of my next (#4) stump removal project.
The stump itself was ground down to about 6" below grade but have decided to totally remove it.

I'm guessing it'll take most of a weekend.
(clickable pic)

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I assume you mean chainsaw chains and/or bars. Yes, I seem to dull and ruin them as fast as I can sharpen or buy new ones. And it doesn't matter how big or small the stump is. It's all about the dirt, mud and imbedded rocks.

Is this just a fact of life? Or do you think there may be some sense to using an electric jackhammer? Yes, I know they cost a bundle, but so do good chainsaws.

Dougster

I don't get anywhere near the dirt with my chainsaws. A. It's dangerous, and B. Can ruin the chain/sprocket/and sometimes the clutch. One question that I don't see that anyone has asked: How big is your BH bucket. I use the 12" bucket for stumps and only use the 24" for moving a bunch of dirt. You need a "thin" bucket to "cut" roots and doesn't disturb more dirt than is necessary. Mine is a 511 Bradco so you might even look into a 9" if one is even made for the 509. You'll find that it digs fast and cuts better. My $.02 worth. BobG in VA

 

[Jsheds]

I've had good success with the advice you've already gotten with the help of one other tactic. I cut the stump close to the ground to give me working room, maybe 8" to 12". Once I've got a good size hole all around the stump, back the tractor as close to the stump as possible without falling in. This allows you to drop the bucket down in the hole and dig under the stump. Take as much dirt off the bottom of the root ball as you can. You can break big roots with a small backhoe by taking little pieces at a time with the backhoe teeth. I've removed many big stumps this way. The hardest part for me is getting the stump out of the hole. Sometimes I dig a ramp out of the hole to drag the stump out.

Here's my favorite stump picture with my old 1510 Ford and Woods 7500 backhoe preparing the site for my garage.

Jim

 

[CTyler]

I've got a Woods 9000 which is very close to the 509 for reach, power etc..
You've got some good advise so far and getting leverage is important. Trying to use the boom or dipper to pull on it isn't very powerfull. Using the bucket curl is strong and using the ground as a leverage point and curling the bucket is very strong.

Try to get one tooth, I use a 12" bucket, on the root to break it loose. Use the ground as a leverage point. If it doesn't break just dig out a little farther and try again. Same idea for popping out the root ball, use the ground and curl.

 

[Dougster]

There seems to be a lot of differences in area and tree types.
The doug-firs I dug out took many hours, one a few days. Then again, these were 2'-3' across at the base, w/ roots that reach out 20' or so. 3 down, 2 more to go.

Good Lord!!! Nothing like that here. Although I do have a bunch of so-called "multi-trunk" oak trees. I haven't dug one of those stumps out yet. That will be interesting I'm sure!

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I was thinking along the lines of what Eddie said. My wife say's I am Lazy,,, and I do not particularly disagree If I have a choice between operating a piece of large hydrualic equipment, or getting down in the dirt with a running chainsaw,,,, No question to me. The wife is always hard pressed to even get me to get off the tractor to hook a chain around something to help pull it out. I would just tell you to keep digging. And there is absolutely no good way to handle a chainsaw in the dirt.

It's occurring to me more and more as I read these posts that I have been placing far too much emphasis on speed... and knocking myself out in the process. For what? Bragging rights? Sounds like it's gonna take what it's gonna take... some longer than others... period.

And I get the message on the chainsaws: No more chainsaws spinning in the mud.

Dougster

 

[PBinWA]

A neighbor near me has one of these (and a new 100hp Kubota) it is awesome!

Suokone Ltd Meri Crusher

It looks like they make smaller ones or you could see if there is another owner in your area that would come and grind up your property for you. You could always buy one use it and re-sell it fairly quickly for a small cost.

 

[Dougster]

I don't get anywhere near the dirt with my chainsaws. A. It's dangerous, and B. Can ruin the chain/sprocket/and sometimes the clutch. One question that I don't see that anyone has asked: How big is your BH bucket. I use the 12" bucket for stumps and only use the 24" for moving a bunch of dirt. You need a "thin" bucket to "cut" roots and doesn't disturb more dirt than is necessary. Mine is a 511 Bradco so you might even look into a 9" if one is even made for the 509. You'll find that it digs fast and cuts better. My $.02 worth. BobG in VA

Makes sense Bob. While not super-wide, my 18' bucket cannot be the ideal choice for stump removal or root cutting (Hence my question about the Bosch Brute Jackhammer). It sometimes feels like I'm moving a mountain for every small stump. But the smallest bucket available for the 509 is 12" wide... same as yours. While probably an improvement over the 18", I'm not sure that the marginal difference would be worth the expense and switching hassle. Plus the thumb I want is only made to use with 18" and up.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

I've had good success with the advice you've already gotten with the help of one other tactic. I cut the stump close to the ground to give me working room, maybe 8" to 12". Once I've got a good size hole all around the stump, back the tractor as close to the stump as possible without falling in. This allows you to drop the bucket down in the hole and dig under the stump. Take as much dirt off the bottom of the root ball as you can. You can break big roots with a small backhoe by taking little pieces at a time with the backhoe teeth. I've removed many big stumps this way. The hardest part for me is getting the stump out of the hole. Sometimes I dig a ramp out of the hole to drag the stump out.

Here's my favorite stump picture with my old 1510 Ford and Woods 7500 backhoe preparing the site for my garage.

Jim

Thanks for the advice. I think I need to get my teeth sharpened! Do they make replacement teeth for the 509 backhoes that aren't so rounded???

That is one nasty big stump! I hope to have a picture that good someday!

Dougster