Need advice on grain drill for haying

[flusher]

I'm looking for a used grain drill to plant my 7-acre hayfield. The recommended mixes for the North Valley are:

Horse mix: 44% orchardgrass, 28% annual rye, 28% perennial rye

Cattle mix: 43% orchard grass, 27% perennial rye, 16% salina clover, 11% annual rye, 3% ladino clover

I understand that, ideally, a grain drill for these seed mixtures should have a grass seed attachment since these seeds are so small in size compared to most grain seeds. I've looked at several 10-12-ft seeders the last few days (an IH, an Oliver-Superior and a JD), none of which have grass seed attachments. So I may have to settle for a grain drill without one.

My haying book says that a grain drill that has settings for rye and wheat can handle grass seeds. If worse comes to worse, they recommend using duct tape to cover part of the drop holes to restrict flow of grass seed down the tubes.

Anyone out there care to steer me in the right direction here? Thanks

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Buy a Brillion seeder unless you plan on planting wheat, oats or other type of crops like that. The Brillion seeder is great as it firms the seedbed so that the grass seed doesn't get buried too deep and it is easy to see where you have been with a Brillion seeder as the packer makes a distictively nice look on the ground once it passes over.

I have a 5' Brillion I use on smaller fields and missed out on a 10' Brillion in excellent shape. On larger fields I have used a Vicon but added a International 5100 21x7 grain drill with the grass seed attachment. It is 12' seeding width and will allow me to still plant my oats in the spring. But if I find another deal on a wider Brillion I am buying it as they are great for grass seed.

 

[flusher]

Buy a Brillion seeder unless you plan on planting wheat, oats or other type of crops like that. The Brillion seeder is great as it firms the seedbed so that the grass seed doesn't get buried too deep and it is easy to see where you have been with a Brillion seeder as the packer makes a distictively nice look on the ground once it passes over.

I have a 5' Brillion I use on smaller fields and missed out on a 10' Brillion in excellent shape. On larger fields I have used a Vicon but added a International 5100 21x7 grain drill with the grass seed attachment. It is 12' seeding width and will allow me to still plant my oats in the spring. But if I find another deal on a wider Brillion I am buying it as they are great for grass seed.

May eventually plant oats. Not sure about that.

Brillion seeders are really nice. Like the idea of one pass seeding/cultipacking. Fast, easy, no sweat planting. But a new one is way out of my price range. Even used ones are spendy assuming you can find one. Hard for me to justify several thousand bucks for even a used Brillion with only 7 acres of planting once a year.

My neighbor used something like a Brillion with his MF-294 to plant 20 acres of alfalfa a few months age. I probably could rent that thing and use my MF-135 diesel to get my planting done, but that would be doing it the easy way.

I'm pretty much resigned to doing planting in two passes--seeding/tickling with some type of drill followed by rolling/cultipacking. Fuel cost is not an issue with my small hayfield. My goal (and challenge) is to find the equipment for this el cheapo approach without spending more than $1K.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

For $1k are you trying to get both items or just the drill? Small drills are bringing a premium now because everyone wants one for food plots and such (the grass seed attachment makes them worth more). Cultipackers are in the same boat as there seems to be a large demand for people with food plots looking for cheap, used equipment. I have found if you buy bigger equipment you can save money. I paid $1800 for my 14' cultimulcher (a great tool for preparing seedbeds) a few years ago. Just after I bought it all the prices doubled and the guy who sold it to me was begging to buy it back.

My grain drills are both International 5100's. They are both 21x7's and the one I bough local for $2400. It was just the drill but in beautiful shape. The other one is in good shape (paints a little more weathered but that is about it) and is a soybean special with grass seed attachment. I paid $1200 for that one on Ebay but had to drive 4 hours to get it, load it and then haul this thing home overwidth thru 3 cities (Canton being one of them and this was the weekend they had the HOF inductions ). I was lucky I wasn't stopped but it was a crappy day and I figure the cops were all inside somplace where it was warm and dry as I only saw one the whole trip home. So if you figure time for two guys, fuel and wear and tear then it is a little cheaper then the other one but with a lot more hassles.

Just plain old culitpackers are getting hard to find in good shape and still cheap. A lot of the old cultipackers had cast ends and usually this cast part is broken but with a little fab skills and limited use I don't think it would be a major problem.

What I do when I am looking for a good deal on a used piece of equipment is I put word out to a few of my friends who know a lot more people then I do as well as start searching Ebay and Fastline. Both sites will let you sort results by distance so you can look things over and find something close that fits your needs. But if you don't find anything right away talk to your neighbor so that it buys you more time to find the right piece of equipment that meets your needs and budget. As soon as you buy something you will find another in better shape for a little less 3 houses down the road from you

If you are interested in a International 5100 grain drill without the grass seeder I have one for sale

 

[Farmwithjunk]

You'll encounter most of your problems with the clovers. Most all grain drills don't have the capabilities to accurately feed out seed that small. Clover seed, even when mixed with other "larger" seed will tend to find it's way out through the feed cups at their own rate. The small seed attachments are the only GOOD way to accurately control small seed placement. Trying to seed clovers with a "cyclone spreader" is a hit or miss proposition at the best.

Too bad we're so far apart... I've got an 8' and a 10' wide small seed box and associated hardware for Deere drills laying in my barn. They'd work on just about any Deere "letter series" drills. They're yours for the taking. So, if you're in the neighborhood any time soon

Robert is spot on with the advice about using a cultipacker after seeding . I did a few waterways and filter strip on my farm a few years ago. The Soil and Water Conservation District helped with the cost involved. The ONLY way they'd kick in on the $$$$ was by my doing things by THEIR standards. That included using a cultipacker after seeding.

Brillion seeders are hard to beat. Also, I've RENTED seeders before. I'd suggest contacting your county AG extention office on that subject. Ours has seeders that can be rented very reasonable to county residents.

 

[TwinWillows]

FWJ,

I have a JD FB-B 8ft drill w/o the small seed box & would be interested in talking w/you about yours. I'm in far N West KY.. Please PM me if you have a moment.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[flusher]

You'll encounter most of your problems with the clovers. Most all grain drills don't have the capabilities to accurately feed out seed that small. Clover seed, even when mixed with other "larger" seed will tend to find it's way out through the feed cups at their own rate. The small seed attachments are the only GOOD way to accurately control small seed placement. Trying to seed clovers with a "cyclone spreader" is a hit or miss proposition at the best.

Too bad we're so far apart... I've got an 8' and a 10' wide small seed box and associated hardware for Deere drills laying in my barn. They'd work on just about any Deere "letter series" drills. They're yours for the taking. So, if you're in the neighborhood any time soon

Robert is spot on with the advice about using a cultipacker after seeding . I did a few waterways and filter strip on my farm a few years ago. The Soil and Water Conservation District helped with the cost involved. The ONLY way they'd kick in on the $$$$ was by my doing things by THEIR standards. That included using a cultipacker after seeding.

Brillion seeders are hard to beat. Also, I've RENTED seeders before. I'd suggest contacting your county AG extention office on that subject. Ours has seeders that can be rented very reasonable to county residents.

Thanks as always for your input. I'm getting a real education as a result.

Regarding my $1K limit I was going by the prices I see on the eBay auctions for cultipackers and grain drills. I've seen 9-ft cultipackers go for as little as $250 a few months ago. I thought I had a chance at an 8-ft Schmeiser cultipacker at an auction last weekend, but it was a mess, missing parts, not worth bidding.

And I've seen smaller size JD grain drills go for $600 on eBay.

Unfortunately most of those items are found East of the Rockies.

I still have a few local places to check out. I'm optimistic that I can find some kind of grain drill soon in my price range.

The biggest problem I have when checking out these old drills is to know when some part is missing. Getting replacement parts, I imagine, is probably a bear for some of the really vintage stuff I've been looking at lately.

Regarding clover seeding, the problem you mentioned is probably a good reason to plant horse mix.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

FWJ,

I have a JD FB-B 8ft drill w/o the small seed box & would be interested in talking w/you about yours. I'm in far N West KY.. Please PM me if you have a moment.

Thanks,
Tom

Consider yourself "PM-ed".

 

[RancherSam]

not to hijack the thread, I'm also having trouble finding a cultipacker and trying to find alternative solutions. How would you guys rate rolling metal barrels filled with water behind the drill as a means of packing the seed in?

Sam

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I don't know, I have never tried it but you don't want to compact the ground too much. Also, the cultipacker has grooves so that water will have plenty of valleys to settle into. A barrel will have large flat areas between the valleys. I don't know just how much difference this will make.

Basically, you can get buy without it if you want to. The idea of the packing wheels on the drill or a cultipacker behind the drill is to improve seed to soil contact. If you make the surface too hard though the seed has to struggle to bust thru the surface.

 

[rdbigfarmboy]

Im interpeting that you are adding seed to an existing hay field. IF so then do this. I would use a 3 pt spreader mix all the seed together with some fertilizer and spread it. Run a disk (harrow or tined drag, leafy tree top or something like) over it to lightly mark the ground, and cover some seed.
If you are establising a new hay field then prepare a good seed bed and then sow seed and disk it in.

No till drills are BEST if you can get one rent it or hire someone to no till drill for you.

Old grain drills will work if you prepare a good seed bed. I would not buy a drill or cultipacker for a 7 acre field.

The local no till was busy so I reseeded 60 plus acres with a spreader and disk and got a good stand.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Im interpeting that you are adding seed to an existing hay field. IF so then do this. I would use a 3 pt spreader mix all the seed together with some fertilizer and spread it. Run a disk (harrow or tined drag, leafy tree top or something like) over it to lightly mark the ground, and cover some seed.
If you are establising a new hay field then prepare a good seed bed and then sow seed and disk it in.

No till drills are BEST if you can get one rent it or hire someone to no till drill for you.

Old grain drills will work if you prepare a good seed bed. I would not buy a drill or cultipacker for a 7 acre field.

The local no till was busy so I reseeded 60 plus acres with a spreader and disk and got a good stand.

Our county soil district has 3 no till drills they rent out fairly cheap. I have heard of other counties doing the same thing so he might want to get ahold of his ag department as they would know.

Around here no one owns a no-till drill as everything is still conventional tillage. The guys who use the no-till are grape farmers (the county has a narrow unit for between the rows) and the small hay farmers and dairy farmers who want to seed small pastures and fields.

 

[JoeinTX]

Flusher, several suggestions here are probably your best bet for the money.

#1-the end-wheel grain drill. It's wonderful for grain planting but it can also be useful in grass/hay planting. I'm not a JD cheerleader, but, the best out there are the older JD end-wheel drills........there are darned tough to beat.

#2-the broadcast seeder. Broadcasters/spreaders are great for grass and smaller acreages like plots. You can find used 3-pt spreaders on eBay/locally for decent prices.


We have both and they cover all of our needs but I know little on culti-packers or no-till. Tried some min-till using the drill with the results you'd expect......half the passes.......half the stand. But, it was an amateurish first try so who knows what could be done with it ultimately.

 

[flusher]

Our county soil district has 3 no till drills they rent out fairly cheap. I have heard of other counties doing the same thing so he might want to get ahold of his ag department as they would know.

Around here no one owns a no-till drill as everything is still conventional tillage. The guys who use the no-till are grape farmers (the county has a narrow unit for between the rows) and the small hay farmers and dairy farmers who want to seed small pastures and fields.

Don't know about renting grain drills from the county soil people around here. May be able to rent one from a neighbor.

However, my acquisitive juices are flowing since I recently found three venerable old grain drills a few miles South of my place. One is a neat looking Superior-Oliver (or is it Oliver-Superior?) drill about 10-ft wide. I'm educating myself now on these old hunks of machinery and hope to do some dealing soon.

Around here the days of the freebies from the county ag district are over. I checked at the county agent's office into getting a soil test done free and he set me straight. Finally had to take my soil sample over to a test lab in Chico to get the analysis done ($70 for the test plus $20 for the recommendations).
Got flagged for low pH (6.03) and need 30 lb/acre nitrogen, 230 lb/acre phosphorus, 110 lb/acre potassium, 30 lb/acre sulfur and 2.2 lb/acre boron. I'll get it mixed in Red Bluff and broadcast it myself using the Kubota B7510HST. Could get it done by the fertilizer guy, but what's the fun in that?

It's a new hayfield on an old 10-acre piece of grazing land that's square in shape, one furlong (660 ft) on a side with fence lines oriented N-S and E-W. I'm using about 1.5 acres for house, buildings and lawn area and another 1 acre or so has about 30 almond trees clustered near the center of the parcel that are left from an old orchard (the trees still produce).

The hayfield is U-shaped and borders the North, West and South fence lines. There's an old ag well about midway along the West fence line together with a large above-ground concrete tank that feeds 3" dia galvanized irrigation pipe that run underground along the West fence line. My neighbor tells me that previous owners 30 years ago surface-irrigated the North half of the property for grazing.

The well needs work to get it back in shape and the well pump is gone, but I don't know if I'll bother with that. The weeds usually are 3-4 ft tall by mid-April when I do the first mowing and are around 2-3 ft tall in late June when I do the final mowing for the season. Don't really need to or want to irrigate during the hot months to get more cuttings. My neighbor irrigates his 20 acres of alfalfa to get more cuttings, but he's got a wad of cash invested and needs all he can get off his acreage.

 

[flusher]

Flusher, several suggestions here are probably your best bet for the money.

#1-the end-wheel grain drill. It's wonderful for grain planting but it can also be useful in grass/hay planting. I'm not a JD cheerleader, but, the best out there are the older JD end-wheel drills........there are darned tough to beat.

#2-the broadcast seeder. Broadcasters/spreaders are great for grass and smaller acreages like plots. You can find used 3-pt spreaders on eBay/locally for decent prices.


We have both and they cover all of our needs but I know little on culti-packers or no-till. Tried some min-till using the drill with the results you'd expect......half the passes.......half the stand. But, it was an amateurish first try so who knows what could be done with it ultimately.

I'm looking for pre-owned end-wheel grain drills around my neighborhood. May be able to make a deal soon for one.

My neighbor used a fancy Brillion-type seeder to plant his 20 acres of alfalfa a few months ago. I probably could rent that thing (that's my backup in case my search for my own grain drill falls short).

 

[Robert_in_NY]

The Brillion seeders are amazing, I still regret missing out on the one locally as it was 12' wide and in like new condition for cheap. I love using our 5' unit behind the Ford 640 or the 1920 as they are good for small food plots or small hay fields.

I didn't mean the county would let you use their drills for free if they have one there (but I would rent the Brillion from you neighbor). Our county charges by the acre but I can't recall the price.

As for the soil test, I get my test done for $12 - $15 per sample depending where it goes. Cornell and Penn State both do soil test (don't know how much PS charges). I can take my sample to any of my fertilizer dealers or the Cornell extension at my County ag agency and they send it to the labs they use. The fertilizer dealers send the sample to the lab at their plant they are associated with.

I am sorry you got soaked so bad for your sample hopefully you can find a cheaper place next time.

 

[blueriver]

I want in!! Heres my opinion, I used the local tradio (thats short for trade -radio), called in and told them I wanted a grain drill. I got a John Deere, 12' with grass seed attatchment and rear packing wheels for $200. (Have to look at the model#) Drove 16 miles, hooked it behind the dodge and pulled it home.

Each fall I put down wheat and rye mix, for spring grazing, I do not make a seed bed, (I quess this would be no-till?) after a fresh rain and the ground is fairly soft, I use this and seed it down, the only time I didn't get a good stand was lack of moisture!

Inside the lids are the setting requirements for everything right down to alfalfa, I also just used it to sow down some bahia grass on a place I rent, the landlord asked for it.

when I am looking, for implements, I like to seek the equipment that is older and just hanging out with no purpose ... Great deals!!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Was it a JD 8300? I used one a couple years ago (my friend owned it). In todays market there really isn't much difference between drills as far as the JD 8300 and International 5100 and 5300. They look almost identical except paint and both doa good job putting seed in the ground.

I think JD had an 8200 drill also.

I like the double disc openers with press wheels but the JD I used had single disc openers and just the chains. The oats came up just fine but I think the birds have an easier time finding the seed that isn't completeley covered.

Did your JD have a fertilizer box built in? I know a lot of the drills that have fertilizer boxes are usually rusted thru on the inside from not being cleaned good enough. They put seed in the ground just fine still but are not as nice overall (but are a lot cheaper).

 

[blueriver]

Robert, If your asking me the question, I don't think its an 8500, I will have to look. I do know it is single disc and I want to say I think 7", does that sound correct? Either way it does exactly what I need. I think if the wheat prices stay up I may put some in next year to harvest. I bet I can find an older used good combine for next to nothing.

BTW ... hows the back coming along?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert, If your asking me the question, I don't think its an 8500, I will have to look. I do know it is single disc and I want to say I think 7", does that sound correct? Either way it does exactly what I need. I think if the wheat prices stay up I may put some in next year to harvest. I bet I can find an older used good combine for next to nothing.

BTW ... hows the back coming along?

Sorry, the question was directed towards you and I wrote 8300, not 8500 (just to avoid confusion).

If it is 12' wide then it would be a 21 hole drill if it is a 7" spacing. The 8300 came in 6,7, 8 and 10" spacings.

My back is doing fairly well. I have some bug that is making all my joints sore and very stiff so I am not feeling the best today. I hope it goes away soon as I am getting tired of my head hurting I got this problem where I am addicted to TBN and staring at the screen makes my head hurt even more but I can't look away

Have fun and good luck with the wheat. I bought a JD 3300 combine with a 2 row corn head and 10' table for $1k in PA. It was in great shape (well the table needed work but it was useable). I was looking for a walker so that I could bale the straw as I dispise baling behind rotaries. Depending on the crop condition you will either be baling short, ground up straw or straw dust (chickens like the straw dust as it kicks around easy ). Baling behind my walker is so much nicer, I don't get as clean a sample as a rotary but for my uses that is ok.