Need advice on used tractor purchase

[johntommybob]

Ok, I wasn't born yesterday, but I need some help. I am looking at buying a used Yanmar 2200 tractor from a local dealer. I don't plan any heavy work for it, just some light bush hogging, maybe a blade to grade my gravel drive and that's about it. It looks pretty good to me and seemed to run well. Started right up, and I drove it around the yard, tried the brakes, clutch, gears, didn't try the PTO. It's still has the original paint (and I like that) and it's not banged up. The rear tires look OK but the front tires are pretty worn. It looked to have about 1800 hours on the meter if I read it right. He starting price is $3600 delivered.

I don't know much about larger tractors: what to look for? What to check out? and if the price is right. Anyone have any advice.

Thanks

 

[chrisjbell]

Welcome to TBN! You've come to the right place and I expect that you'll get a lot of more specific information from others on the forum, but here's my suggestions...

1800 hours isn't new, but $3600 is a pretty low price. You probably won't see much better than that on a compact - in fact, you can easily pay much more than that for an old Ford 8N with far more time on it.

You want to see if you can find out how well it has been maintained. Oil and hydraulic fluid changes are the most important factors, along with filters. If the maintenance has been kept up you can expect get quite a few more hours out of it (how many is a subject of some debate around here /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif).

The fact that the body condition is good is a plus. That means it hasn't been rolled or anything too nasty. I wouldn't worry about the front tires being worn - mine are almost toast at 500 hours. I expect that they've been replaced at least once or twice already (rears too, but that might depend on how it was used).

The two major concerns are engine and transmission condition. It is hard to determine how "healthy" they are without doing a pretty serious mechanical evaluation, and you can't take a tractor to one of the triple-A service places /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Either one of those could cost you big bucks if they decide to die on you (possably as much as you'd pay for the tractor).

You didn't mention if it was 4WD, but if so that system can also be quite costly to repair.

If you do decide to go for it, make darn sure that the PTO is working correctly. Have the dealer hook something up to it and make sure it can handle a load, or put into the purchase agreement a contingency based on the PTO system working properly.

Good luck on it, and someone with brand specific knowledge will probably chime in pretty soon...Chris

 

[Docsknotinn]

I shopped the gray market tractors pretty heavily when I was first looking. Actually I went to three different states to look. The first thing on ANY used tractor is to insist that a larger implement like a tiller be hooked up so you can see that the hydraulics will lift the weight and the pto works properly. If you buy used with out that step you are flying blind and must remember the buyer beware caveat. The model you are looking at was a popular one so that is good. The rest of what I have to say is subjective to each individuals beliefs and values plus EXPERIENCE. I shout experience because I hate to see people get something they did not bargain for. When buying a gray market tractor, first you must thouroghly understand what you are buying, a item never intended for sale or use in the USA. This is only relavant to you as it is important to find out if the seller will be able to supply you with parts. MOST gray market dealers now only sell parts to those who bought from them. Many claim to have "parts" and then when you investigate further what they have are generic items, tires, batteries, seats, lights. Know that you are buying a machine with out a ROPS or PTO guards and warnings in chineese if at all. This is why I say experience comes to play. Theese machines can be a poor value or a fantastic value based on your needs and experience. Any reputable Gray dealer should include a english owners manual or at the very least a parts conversion list. Make sure you look closely at the front tires and axle seals. Most of theese machines sat in water for many years. Pay close attention to the 3 point hitch as most were formerly 2 pt hitches. Makes sure its not a cobble job conversion. Finally Test Drive, Test Drive, Test Drive. Run it for at least an hour. My experience showed that the model you are looking at that had been rebuilt on entry to the us would be several thousand. One further caveat, it may may well not be illegal to turn back hous on a hour meter in China. You must use your good common sense. I want to emphasize that I do not own one and my opinion is just that. It is not meant to endorse or condem, just inform with the neuteral facts. From there it is up to you. The Yanmar owners group is here so you should find some help there as well. I do like the sound of those old 2 cylinder models and I especially like the Yanmars. Good luck and have FUN shopping !

 

[rtimgray]

Not to seem adverserial, but if you're going to try to present neutral facts, try to get them right. Yanmars (like the one in question) come from Japan, not China. The writing on them will be in Japanese, although most that I have seen also have quite a bit of Arabic numerals and some english writing on them.

For the most part, Yanmars are a fantastic value and in my opinion are some of the best-built tractors on the planet. I agree wholly with the test driving, PTO test, lift test, etc. It could be an especially good tractor if it looks original (i.e. no new paint or other reconditioning - they're not trying to hide anything). If it all checks out, you will likely have a tractor that will hold up to use for years and years to come. Don't be scared of buying a grey market tractor, but do become educated about them. Good luck.

 

[Docsknotinn]

I am sorry if you see anything in my post as adversarial in any way. That was/is not my intent at all. It really seems a moot point weather they were made in China or of course as you point out Yanmars are very obviously made in Japan. A thousand apolagies ! The country that the unit was imported from could well be several so any foreign language will likely be useless to the US buyer.

 

[BB_TX]

Be sure and check the PTO. I have a JD 950 made by Yanmar. It is a great machine. However, my PTO clutch is stuck. The only solution is to split the tractor to get to the clutch. This seems to be a fairly common problem. My operators manual states that you should block the clutch pedal down if the tractor will not be used for extended periods.
I get around the problem by engaging the PTO before I start the engine. My PTO safety switch is jumpered out. I know, I know, /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif not safe but my only option until I can justify the dollars to get it fixed. And I never do that if anyone is anywhere near.

 

[johntommybob]

Thanks for the input so far guys. One thing I need to correct: As I understand what the term means - I don't think this is a gray market tractor or that it ever has been. The seller is a small town farm equipment dealer of long standing. They are the small town Cub Cadet, White, and Troy Built dealer for garden tractors, and they sell large farm tractors (not Yanmar) and farm equipment of several different manufactors. The Yanmar tractor was taken in on trade on a newer model. The sales person was an older fellow (dressed in overhauls) who looked like he knew his way around tractors. He was very helpful and told me according to his book the tractor was made in 1976 and had 17 HP at the PTO. He offered to equip it with a new 4 ft bush hog (he thought a 5 ft one would be too big for it), put new tires on the front, and deliver it to me (a distance of about 60 miles) for a total of $4095.00. He thought I could get by with out paying sales tax if I would buy it as a farmer and he thought I could.
(I have about 12 acres of mixed: pasture, woods and gardens).

I thought it might also be fun to piddle with sprucing the thing up, but I don't want something where everything needs to be replaced.

 

[cowboydoc]

Nice post docsknotinn. I'm with you it doesn't really matter china or japan we knew what you were saying.

johntommybob,

$700 for two tires and a 4' mower isn't much of a deal. A 4' mower won't cost you much and tires won't be much either. You can find a cheaper 4' mower for around $300 and tires for probably $150-200 depending on size and what tread you want.

 

[fivestring]

"Pay close attention to the 3 point hitch as most were formerly 2 pt hitches."

Not so. Only the smaller models, mostly 13 - 15 PTO hp models. My Iseki 1700 has a 3 pt. cat 1 hitch.

"turn back hous on a hour meter in China"

Like rtimgray said, these are Jap tractors, not Chinese. 1800 hours on that model is probably right. They were mostly used to till rice paddies.. that means no rocks, no stumps, etc. Most of them have not been worked hard. Yanmar and Iseki are probably the easiest to find parts for. I haven't had a parts problem yet.
Good luck and happy tractoring!

 

[fivestring]

If the model is 2200, it has 22 hp at the PTO; 25-26 at the engine. If it's a Yanmar, it's a grey market tractor. These were not made for sale in the USofA. Lack of a ROPS or ROPS mounts is the first clue that it is a grey market tractor, but there is nothing wrong with grey market.

 

[slowrev]

"You can find a cheaper 4' mower for around $300"
I don't think I would want to use a new rotary cutter that sold for 300.00.
You pretty get what you pay for in a rotary cutter. Spend 600.00 and it will outlast 5 or 6 of the 300.00 ones.

 

[DAVELR]

I had a YM195 Yanmar diesel. My dad purchased new from a Ford dealer in 1978. I sold it when it had about 1600 hours on it. It was a great tractor. 19 hp. Never gave me any problem except front spindles one time. It had a FEL which I think was too big for a 2 wd tractor and spindles broke once. Only problem I ever had.

 

[pruntyc]

As has been said, this is a grey market tractor. Yanmar did make some for us market, but not the YM2200. But that doesn't make them bad either. I have a YM1700, bush hog about 5 to 6 acres all the time. And use a rear blade to do my drive, and a dirt scoop. It does the job just fine. John Deere inported over 100,000 of them by 1986, so that should tell you something, fact is they still make a lot of the compacts for John Deere. And as far as the man haveing a problem with his PTO on his John Deere, any car or tractor can have a problem, made here or Japan. It has 3 or 4 ptos speeds on it, use the #1 or lowest speed as it is what our attactments use in this country. No problem with parts, many dealers on the Yanmar forum can get you anything you might need, I say might, as they have very little problems.

 

[pruntyc]

Oh and another thing, I don't know where the guy got $700, you said $3600, and then with tires and bush hog $4095, that adds up to $495, a good price for a bush hog and tires.

 

[SteveM]

I am pro-gray market, to start with and have looked at many yannies and Isekis with the intention to buy. Along with all the other good advice, I would make sure you have a mechanic/shop lined up that could do serious work if the need arises. Using the internet it is not hard to find most parts for these rigs - but few weekend warriors are equipped or able to split a tractor, or take off a head etc. So it is nice to know you have a backup plan should something serious occur down the road. Hang out at the Yanmar forum for more detailed things to look for when making the final test drive.

 

[Docsknotinn]

You might want to think twice about the tax deal, unless you are legitimately growing for profit saveing those few dollars is never worth the risk of batteling the IRS /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Docsknotinn]

Five String, I think you are partially correct. It really does not matter at all to me WHO is correct as long as we get the proper info to the new user in the end. Yanmar most certainly Did make tractors for and sell them in the USA. The 2200 is a model that without the full designation I can not tell personally if it is a gray or not. I am not assumeing it is a YM2200. I do know theese were two cylinder models and VERY poular. Most of the Gray market machines do come with a 2 pth and are converted in the usa when imported. I think we also need to clarify that just because a tractor was made in Japan, gray or otherwise it certainly does not mean it spent its working life in Japan and not, China, Malaysa, Vietnam etc. Where it was re-imported from is any ones guess unless you bring a container in yourself. Additionally if the engine is 22 hp it is likely 17-19 pto hp not more than the engine rateing, it would be nice if it worked that way though. In the end there is no right or wrong only right or wrong for the buyer. I think the sad tale is that many unkowingly buy a gray. Others get a great buy as they know exactly what they want and are getting. Take your time and do your research. This was a great step. Kindest Regards

 

[fivestring]

"He was very helpful and told me according to his book the tractor was made in 1976 and had 17 HP at the PTO. "

If it was made in 1976 for USofA, it was mandated by law to have a ROPS. Law went into effect for all tractors in the USofA after 1973 according to all literature I've read. If it doesn't have ROPS or mounts, it's grey.
Jap tractor designations (except Kubota) - model number has the PTO hp. YM2200 has 22 hp at the PTO. YM1700 - 17 hp at the PTO. BR549 - 54 hp at the PTO. It will have 3-6 more at the engine depending on transmission, PS, etc.

 

[cowboydoc]

I agree with you but probably not going to get a $600 cutter with this deal, probably the cheapest model available.

 

[Docsknotinn]

The implement/tire deal does not sound that great to me. Saveing $ and getting the least expensive implements often is a unpleasant experience. I do think that if this is a YM2000 that about $3600 is a median price, not a great buy, not over priced. IF everything is in proper working order. Also some Gray dealers warrant their machines for a few months. I show this model at 24 hp so I guess there are too many configureations to guess, Ym2000, Ym2000B, Ym2000BD etc.