Need Advice with Mud & Horses. Rookie

[Trippy1313]

Hey everyone. I didn't grow up with or around horses. My wife did, but she doesn't know anything about mud/ground control, and her dad isn't around. I'm kind of a tractor rookie here as well.

Right now, until we get more paddocks set up we have one roaming area about 144'×96' and a smaller area/paddock about 60x60.

The bigger area is only muddy up front where they more often walk, but the smaller paddock is just terribly muddy, 6-8" deep.

I'm not sure how deep my hard pan is, but when I walk through it, many the areas feel really hard 8" deep.

I dont have any experience in this, curious if I should scrape out the mud down to the lower slope where they don't walk as much and is less muddy, do I just dump tons of gravel.

If I scrape, do i do it now while its soft before summer comes, or nothing at all? I just don't have a clue.

As far as equipment and implements, I have a Bobcat Ct2025 (Kioti Ck2610) with a Loader w/piranha blade, backhoe. My buddy and I share a few implements: 90" custom made box blade (got it for free), 60" box blade, 60" back blade, 60" Rake, disc/cultivator, 48" tiller.

My wife keeps bugging me on doing something with it, but I dont know the right thing to do. I'm a tractor rookie and need advice/help. Lol.

I had a guy bringing me a bunch of free woodchips for a bit, that helped, but he's been low on business since fuel prices jumped.

 

[jeff9366]

I'm not sure how deep my hard pan is, but when I walk through it, many the areas feel really hard 8" deep.

Are the areas around the paddocks draining OK? Is there lush Spring grass evident?

I am not a horse person but gravel is probably bad for horse hooves.

Bobcat CT2025​

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	65 inches 165 cm
Length:	120.9 inches 307 cm
Width:	64 inches 162 cm
Height (ROPS):	91.5 inches 232 cm
Operating weight:	2646 lbs 1200 kg
Ground clearance:	11.5 inches 29 cm

You can break up hardpan with a Subsoiler or an All Purpose Plow. Your tractor is pretty light. You will likely have more success with a single shank Subsoiler.

Subsoilers may require somewhat unusual adjustment of your Three Point Hitch to both penetrate sufficiently AND lift high enough not to drag the foot.
(You may need to move right and left Lifting Rods away from the Lower Link bull's eyes, into holes closer to the tractor. This is a pin adjustment.)

Subsoiling mud will accomplish nothing. Mud will immediately fill the fissures. Soil needs to be fairly dry so fractures through hardpan remain open to act as drains.

SUBSOILER VIDEOS: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=compact+tractor+subsoiler+drainage

 

[jeff9366]

Dirt Dog - All Purpose Plow / Field Cultivator REVIEW + PICTURES

Dirt Dog All Purpose Plow / Field Cultivator Dirt Dog Model APP 66-5 Total Width 66", Working Width 62", Five Tines, Weight 284 Pounds, Paid $835.00 (2010) Field Cultivator: A Three Point Hitch mounted, secondary tillage implement, used to perform operations such as soil aeration...

www.tractorbynet.com

 

[Trippy1313]

Kindly correct your tractor identification in your T-B-N PROFILE.

Case 580ck Bobcat Ct2025

My bad... when I originally joined, that was my tractor. I sold it a few months back.


And as far as mentioning the ground feeling hard 8" deep, I was wondering if it should scrape down to there? Not necessarily digging deeper.... Yes plenty of thick grass outside the horse areas. The ground drains okay, but we're also in Washington state and having record rains.

 

[Rockbadchild]

something need to be done if not you will have hoof problems... I wouldn't scrape it down, grade it while its still damp then dig a ditch let it dry up a bit without the horse in if possible then add gravel or sand...

 

[fishheadbob]

You say "horses" or more than one in a pretty small area. Horses make muddy messes in a hurry, the background in the pics make it obvious you don't live in a desert, so you're going to have a lot of mud. Even if you scrape it, drain it, tile it, or otherwise improve it, you're going to have a lot of mud. Do you have any acreage available ?

 

[Rockbadchild]

You say "horses" or more than one in a pretty small area. Horses make muddy messes in a hurry, the background in the pics make it obvious you don't live in a desert, so you're going to have a lot of mud. Even if you scrape it, drain it, tile it, or otherwise improve it, you're going to have a lot of mud. Do you have any acreage available ?

the small area in the picture is his winter lot ... in the fall and spring you can't send the horse in the field because first they will turn that field muddy and they will eat the grass before they start growing and killing them, so keeping them in this small area is the way to go for this time of the year, mud is inevitable I agree but you can minimize the amount of time it is muddy and how deep it is...

 

[jeff9366]

And as far as the ground feeling hard 8" deep. Should I scrape down to there? Not necessarily digging deeper.... Yes plenty of thick grass outside the horse areas. The ground drains okay, but we're also in Washington state and having record rains.

The ground drains okay. New, important information.

I would not move any organic rich mud. ( But my experience is with Florida sandy loam, which perks readily and drys very quickly. )

Subsoiling should improve water perk through your hard pan but your basic problem seems to be too many horses for your available land size.

Subsoiling mud will accomplish nothing. Mud will immediately fill the fissures. Soil needs to be fairly dry so the Subsoiler created fractures through hardpan remain open to act as drains.

Nothing packs soil harder over the longer term than animal hooves.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

If you get a few cases of foot rot, life will change. Horses can go through mud but they don't do good living in it. Cows also. When they get lame, you realize how big they are. My oldest horse is a 94 model. He is not in mud unless he wants to be. Still in good shape and healthy.

 

[Rockbadchild]

i forgot to say if this mud is mostly manure then yes scrape it down and use it to fertilize your field in the fall…

 

[Bill Guenthner]

Some folks out on the highway tried to keep horses on a too small piece of land. Eventually the whole place washed out and is now just unusable for any purpose. Horses need a lot of space and you really need to be able to rotate them in and out of pastures to allow the grass to recover.

How Many Horses Per Acre? 5 Things To Consider - Savvy Horsewoman

How many acres per horse is standard? This is a question I get a lot and, unfortunately, there isn’t a straightforward answer. A quick Google search will tell you that 2 acres per horse–or 2…

www.savvyhorsewoman.com

 

[Trippy1313]

A lot of good posts. So thank you, keep them coming. I'll see if I can add more info to address some and maybe it'll help direct me even more.

So, I say it drains okay. By that I mean, if I can get a week without rain, the mud dries up pretty well and I can go walk on it without sinking in at all. And it appears dry.

BUT. A big but too. I live in Western Washington. Enumclaw to be specific. Fall through spring it rains an average of 6 days/week.

I live on 5 acres, I'd say 2.5 is currently usable that I can eventually add more paddocks/cross fencing after I fully fence our property. The other 2.5 acres is trees or our living areas. Eventually the plan IS to make 3 or 4 of these paddocks to rotate them through.

We had 2 horses and a pony...

But a month ago my in-laws brought their 32 year old mare over "temporarily" while they worked on moving to Arizona, then decided they didn't think she'd survive the trip or heat down there, so now they're basically leaving her for us to take care of. So now its 4 sets of hooves.

Additional question. When you guys mention subsoiling through the hardpan... I live on a very rich aquifer. I almost wonder if parts of my property are above a spring. I've never dried my well up and have accidentally left the hose on 12 hours in the summer, I don't have a water tank on my well system. If I subsoil through the hardpan.... will that actually help it drain? Or would it just introduce more water from below? I'm not sure how that works.

The areas the horses dont walk in much are pretty dry and hard even through the rain, it's really just their main leisure areas. By the gates, shed front half of paddocks. The back halves they only walk around enough to finish off whatever grass may be popping up.

 

[Trippy1313]

i forgot to say if this mud is mostly manure then yes scrape it down and use it to fertilize your field in the fall…

It's not. Its mostly just dirt mud, but there is manure in with it.

 

[Trippy1313]

If you get a few cases of foot rot, life will change. Horses can go through mud but they don't do good living in it. Cows also. When they get lame, you realize how big they are. My oldest horse is a 94 model. He is not in mud unless he wants to be. Still in good shape and healthy.

Yeah and that's what we want to prevent. Luckily, the do have drier, less muddy areas in their current spaces they can go to, so we haven't seen hoof problems yet thankfully.

Here's a pic from this morning from the other, lower end. Much drier towards me and not muddy, but wet up above by the shed and water trough.

 

[Rockbadchild]

you could elevate with sand or gravel around the feeding area and shelter with a path from these places and to the gate just 2 to 4 feet wide, it would solve most problems for the rainy seasons.

 

[gsganzer]

Horses' hooves and mud are mutually exclusive for good health. Like some others have said, acreage is the key, so they don't end up on bare ground. However, you do need a dry lot for those times they need to get off the pasture. There's a reason most horse ranches cluster around sandy soiled areas. You'll probably need to excavate out to a certain depth and then layer in a slope draining 1 1/2" base, then some type of 1/2 - 3/4" base, then a sand layer. The kicker is then containing it from washout. Anything can be fixed with $$$.

 

[Trippy1313]

I'm so new and quite honestly ignorant to a lot of this. I read the term washout a couple times... what does that mean exactly???

The spot where it's muddy IS the higher ground, should I make it higher??? The dry area is about 2-3 feet lower.

 

[fishheadbob]

From Debbie Downer... It is a very wet part of the country. You have more hooves than that small plot will ever be able to handle. Something has to go, be it a few horses, your current location, or most of your bank account. And even if you clean out your bank account that small area cannot hold that much.
In urban areas horses are confined to their stall almost all day as there is nowhere for any loafing area - not enough real estate. You could keep them confined and do a lot of shoveling while you generate tons of manure for disposal. You will also develop a fly issue with 4 horses pooping as fast as they can.

 

[Trippy1313]

Welp..... I guess maybe my best course is to just stick with the plan to eventually make some more paddocks to rotate eh?

Should I even scrape any dirt out or just back blade to pack it back down when it dries out a little? Or... what ideas for when it does dry out.?

I need to come up with a proper plan of attack and maintenance I suppose.

Money is a factor, I don't have the funds to dump tons into it, but I'm not saying I'm broke either. We can afford the horses, the medical bills all that. But we have other things to budget for besides mud.

 

[jaxs]

You should do the "planned"expansions and fencing now,not in the future. Vist local horse professionals and follow their methods of keeping horse hooves dry. I think you will see large stalls inside buildings,covered paddocks,concrete topped with sand that is periodically changed out. They will also have daily exercise programs in covered arenas in wet weather and outdoor arenas in dry weather. With any pet comes responsibilities,larger and multiple pets usually equate to larger and more responsibilities. Let's face it,some of us are not up to the task for owning a goldfish,much less large or multiple pets. Consider this. Wild horse and burro populations must be controlled to prevent hoof damage to vast open range country. Look more toward reality and less for silver bullets.