Need First Tractor. . . I want to learn! ! !

[rScotty]

Just another opinion... I think reliability concerns with older equipment are over blown. Old simple mechanical machines rarely have problems. Your more likely to have problems with a new machine. A mechanical pre-Tier IV emissions tractor is a joy to own.

I agree. New and old, they are both a joy to own - but for slightly different reasons.
The old ones have funky charm, and are simple, inexpensive, easy machines to run and to understand. There's a sense of quality in the heavy duty way even the smallest ones were built. Control systems tend to be mechanical type; electricals are limited to starting....and sometimes lights.
You pretty much have to like gear shifting or power shifting because that's all there is. Power steering is optional and should have been on everything. The hydraulics on the older ones are as good or maybe even a touch better than new models. Even a modest mechanic can make most adjustments himself

The new ones have a shiny finish coupled with way more comfortable seats and control location. They have safety equipment deemed un-necessary for older machines - and that's a good thing. New tractors are somewhat more complex to operate than older ones, but require less wrestling from the operator.
New tractors have the same sense of quality that you find in modern cars where a lot of the strength comes from alloys and the way everything is attached to something else.
They are absolutely loaded with electrical systems, warnings, lights, and accessories. Control systems are usually electrically actuated rather than mechanical type.
New tractors have a range of different transmission types. The HST (hydrostatic transmission) is a joy! They almost always have power steering. Formerly routine adjustments are designed for dealer mechanics to do.

Both new and old will do the same exact work, and the reliability seems to be about equal. Reliability was always of prime importance for tractors, and it was pretty much perfected a generation ago... or before. The biggest difference I notice seems to be in the amount of operator input required. New ones are fingertip control; older tractors take more operator effort with levers and feet.

Regardless of new or old, condition is everything. I can't over-emphasize that. A well-maintained 30 year old tractor can be every bit as reliable as a new one. After a few hundred hours to a few thousand, both new and old are going to be roughly equal in reliability. it's all in how well they are used and maintained.
rScotty

 

[gladehound]

I agree. New and old, they are both a joy to own - but for slightly different reasons.
The old ones have funky charm, and are simple, inexpensive, easy machines to run and to understand. There's a sense of quality in the heavy duty way even the smallest ones were built. Control systems tend to be mechanical type; electricals are limited to starting....and sometimes lights.
You pretty much have to like gear shifting or power shifting because that's all there is. Power steering is optional and should have been on everything. The hydraulics on the older ones are as good or maybe even a touch better than new models. Even a modest mechanic can make most adjustments himself

The new ones have a shiny finish coupled with way more comfortable seats and control location. They have safety equipment deemed un-necessary for older machines - and that's a good thing. New tractors are somewhat more complex to operate than older ones, but require less wrestling from the operator.
New tractors have the same sense of quality that you find in modern cars where a lot of the strength comes from alloys and the way everything is attached to something else.
They are absolutely loaded with electrical systems, warnings, lights, and accessories. Control systems are usually electrically actuated rather than mechanical type.
New tractors have a range of different transmission types. The HST (hydrostatic transmission) is a joy! They almost always have power steering. Formerly routine adjustments are designed for dealer mechanics to do.

Both new and old will do the same exact work, and the reliability seems to be about equal. Reliability was always of prime importance for tractors, and it was pretty much perfected a generation ago... or before. The biggest difference I notice seems to be in the amount of operator input required. New ones are fingertip control; older tractors take more operator effort with levers and feet.

Regardless of new or old, condition is everything. I can't over-emphasize that. A well-maintained 30 year old tractor can be every bit as reliable as a new one. After a few hundred hours to a few thousand, both new and old are going to be roughly equal in reliability. it's all in how well they are used and maintained.
rScotty

Very well said!

 

[jezreel]

Okey Doke. . . I致e been soaking it all in, but I have a question. A couple of y誕ll have mentioned backhoes. RandyinTN mentioned he just ordered a new tractor with a FEL and backhoe. Other than digging holes, what types of jobs around the property would I use the backhoe on? Don稚 spend too much time on this question. Sorry for the stupid question.

 

[gladehound]

Most people can hire out any backhoe work they need done for less than the cost of a backhoe because they are quite pricy. Hopefully most who own backhoes are the exception. Backhoes a best for holes and deep trenches. There are also narrow buckets (stump buckets) that can quickly dig a hole as deep as they are long. There are fork attachments that can do the same thing. Neither are a backhoe replacement but work fine for shallow holes if attached to a large enough machine.

 

[dodge man]

End loaders can dig a hole and go deep but your hole will be as wide or wider than your bucket. End loaders are not very good for digging down if that makes any sense. For example I put 2 15 inch culverts under my driveway where there had only been one before. The only way I could dig the trench to put the culverts in was because I could drive down the ditch line to dig the trench. My bucket is 4 feet wide so the trench ended up too wide. They also were not very deep.

Imagine trying to dig a water line in 5 feet deep this way. You could do it but your trench would be 4 feet wide and you have to have a ramp to get out of the trench to dump the dirt. It would take a huge amount of time. A back hoe sits up top and is perfect for digging trench’s and deep holes. It’s also an expensive add on for tractors so you want to make sure you need it.

 

[rScotty]

Okey Doke. . . I致e been soaking it all in, but I have a question. A couple of y誕ll have mentioned backhoes. RandyinTN mentioned he just ordered a new tractor with a FEL and backhoe. Other than digging holes, what types of jobs around the property would I use the backhoe on? Don稚 spend too much time on this question. Sorry for the stupid question.

I have a thumb on the backhoe and that makes it useful for lots of things. A thumb makes it a whole different tool. It carries trees and big rocks and can place either one of them easily and accurately. With the thumb I can also pick up piles of debis and put them somewhere else. The backhoe is very handy as a crane for picking up heavy implements or tools and putting them down somewhere else very gently and accurately. Of course it is good for digging holes and trenches, but I really don't use it as much for that . Most use is as a landscaping tool or handy stong crane for lifting and placing.
rScotty

 

[not2old]

Most people can hire out any backhoe work they need done for less than the cost of a backhoe because they are quite pricy. Hopefully most who own backhoes are the exception. Backhoes a best for holes and deep trenches. There are also narrow buckets (stump buckets) that can quickly dig a hole as deep as they are long. There are fork attachments that can do the same thing. Neither are a backhoe replacement but work fine for shallow holes if attached to a large enough machine.

I'm retired and my time is almost free. In eight years I've used my hoe to install three yard hydrants with about 300 feet of trench, dug a 13 foot deep dry well and dug out over 100 stumps, some of which weigh over the lifting weight of my machine. I'm 1/2 way through building a retaining wall, moving over 1000 yards of gravel and about to dig out for a foundation for a shop. I would have spent way more money on hiring out these jobs and admit some of them wouldn't have been due to the cost. AND I STILL HAVE MY HOE.

 

[rngrrymd]

Okey Doke. . . I致e been soaking it all in, but I have a question. A couple of y誕ll have mentioned backhoes. RandyinTN mentioned he just ordered a new tractor with a FEL and backhoe. Other than digging holes, what types of jobs around the property would I use the backhoe on? Don稚 spend too much time on this question. Sorry for the stupid question.

Not a stupid question. It is one widely debated on both sides of the aisle here on TBN. You will have to evaluate what tasks you will for sure be able to use the backhoe on or specifically need a backhoe or excavator of some type to perform. Do you have enough tasks to justify purchasing a backhoe with your tractor? Then you have to look at your availability to use a backhoe or excavator time-wise. Since you are retiring and "should" have more time (I know some guys who are busier retired than they were working) it may be cost beneficial to you to rent equipment for a day or 2 if you can line up all your projects to be done one right after the other. You will have to evaluate the cost of getting the backhoe attachment vs the cost of renting equipment or hiring out the job. If it makes sense to get the backhoe then get it. If not, then rent or hire out.

In my case, I work an average of 60 hours or more a week so I have limited seat time in big blocks of time so I need availability of my backhoe at all times so I can get a couple hours in here and there. I also have enough projects on my 20 acres including building a house over the next 2 years to justify the cost. Everyone's situation is different - the main concern is not to frivolously spend money on an item you won't use but on the other hand not waste money having to hire out or rent if it doesn't suit your situation. In the end, it is your money and your choice, we can only give good or bad advice. hth.

 

[terryknight]

my problem with backhoes for cuts and utility tractors is that for the same money you can buy an older full size hoe that even worn out is more than a cut or ut hoe will ever be. sure it's another piece of equipment to maintain and they are large, maybe too large for some spaces. but buy it do your work and sell it for close to what you paid. we have an 86 case 580 dad bought it for 6500 10 ish years ago. still have it, and it's nice to have it, and if it were to be sold, i bet it would be more than he paid (he have done some work to it)

 

[4570Man]

Any full size tlb that’s worth what I had in my tractor backhoe is completely worn out. Old worn out backhoes are money pits. Although I only have 7k more in my nice full size backhoe than I got for my old tractor with a backhoe. And I got 700 hours work from the tractor nearly for free.